How to Better Look After Newcomers?

This thread is mainly aimed at those people that have joined the Temple in the past month or so, however I welcome input from everyone.

I was saddened recently to learn that we're doing a pretty poor job of helping out newcomers and making them feel welcome . And so I'm looking for advice on how we can improve this.

Currently when a new member joins, somebody from the Welcoming Party will send them a little PM saying 'Welcome/check out the FAQ/post an introduction' within the first few days (ideally the first 24 hours) of them joining the site.

After that, there doesn't really seem to be much in terms of interaction with newcomers besides the generic 'Welcome to the Temple!' responses to their introduction thread.

I realise that, assuming the individual begins the IP, they should get a PM form the IP team at the very least, and ideally a sponsor.

But all of these are pretty generic. I mean, the welcome messages have to be, in the last three weeks alone I've personally issued 121 Welcome Messages to new members :laugh: thats A LOT of new people to keep track of, most of whom never even log back in.

Unless newcomers are very active in the forums, or I bump into them in chat, its very easy to assume that they're just another one of those people that don't come back.

So has anyone got any ideas on how to be more engaged with newcomers?

And what kinds of things would you newcomers out there like to see us doing to make you feel more welcome? Because I can assure you that you are all very much welcome here



NB: We're currently looking for more sponsors for the IP team, if anyone is interested please contact Leah, in the absence of a IP Team Lead at present. Also, as the newest member of the IP Team I still have a number of spaces to take on a couple more Journals, so if any Novices want me to review their journals so far and discuss with them, please send me a PM and I'll try my best to accommodate you.

MTFBWY

I feel like a lot of Shoji's post in the other thread could be useful in this thread...lots of good points in there...(not savvy enough on how to do that...without making it look like I was plagiarizing...copy & paste?...)

Yeah......

I'm just gonna copy and paste :laugh:

Original post can be found here

Asakura Shoji wrote:

Bingo. Look at who has replied to my intro post from 17 days ago: 6 people on the day I posted, 2 others in the past day. Special note no one from the IP team replied to the thread (noting that Brick replied via PM) except for Kobos, who posted today, and I'd think that they in particular might want to be looking at new members and following up to see if we wanted to do IPs or were confused about starting, etc.

To be clear, this is just an observation--I'm not having any kind of dramatic emotional response to any of this, because I'm not deeply emotionally invested here...yet. I'm not trying to file complaints. I just think that there has probably been more outreach in the past which may be why people are confused about why the more recent newbies are confused. Therefore, I'm just listing the facts of what happened to me as a relative newcomer so people can see where stuff broke down. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work--I only know my own experience.

To the point that some people have made as to what any new person really needs to know about the stuff happening above our pay grade: it is really helpful to know that there is a skeleton crew and that there are some distractions right now and that's why newcomer outreach is worse than usual (I mean, I hope this isn't usual ). That the issues may be administrative on paper, but when major changes are being made people are going to get stressed out (because we're human) so sorry if some of that is spilling over. Don't panic--this, too, shall pass. That it's worth it for us to keep doing my IP (I mean, right now some of us are legitimately unsure because some of the rumors make it sound like shutdown is imminent in 3, 2, 1...) and that guidance is there for us if we need it.

@Brick, I'm not sure the IP team is functioning beyond you, or if it is who's doing what may need to be updated on the IP part of the website? I got absolutely no reply to my initial "Hey, I've started my journal" PM, and I haven't sent out others to other people because I'm assuming you all are busy because of stuff going on. I just kind of put that all on hold for the moment until things blew over. I'm listening to/reading the materials and writing, but am not polishing and posting because I don't have the foggiest if we even have an entirely functional IP team right now or, as I said above, if it's worth it because will TOTJO continue to exist (and will the people who made me want to be here still be here?). I see Kit stepped down today and so I'm sure more reshuffling of duties will happen. It's cool, I'm waiting it out, but I'm just observing it doesn't necessarily appear to be functioning as normal.

Not having a working application for a while also left newcomers in limbo. Again, I understand stuff breaks and needs to be fixed, and that it appears to be working again now, but it's one more thing that leads to not-the-smoothest introduction for newcomers at the moment.

Perhaps people can see where this combination of things makes it looks a little more chaotic and unwelcoming for new people right now than it may have been when you joined, and why we might therefore kind of want to know what's going on.

I'm also going to copy and paste your comments Sam if thats ok?

Original post can be found here

SamThrift wrote:

I hear a lot of questions about paying attention to new members, offering tips on the IP, and ensuring Knights/Apprentices are helping out in these areas more.

What if some of that burden were shifted more towards the Novice ranks?

Like, sure, interacting with Apprentices and Knights is certainly still important. But if I am struggling in the IP, it is often more useful to talk to others currently working through it together, at the same time. I for one generally understand new material better if I have to immediately turn around and explain it to someone else. When you grasp a concept well enough to teach that concept, it sticks with you better?

Now I do not do too well welcoming new members, and perhaps the inexperience of "not having completed the training" is undesirable by some, but if it were approached more as a "study group" mentality, where guests, new members, those working through the IP, were more responsible for "policing their own", it would probably help us grow faster in anticipation of an apprenticeship, free up a lot of that inherent responsibility of the knights and apprentices, and allow us to build a little more direct camaraderie with those in our general era of future knighthood.

Put the onus on us Novice types to work together more directly, help new members get started on the IP, and work through it more as a team...I could benefit a lot from that sort of approach to it myself, and suppose as such, should simply start moving in that direction whether or not my lil idea here gains traction anyway...

Any of y'all ever think through something outloud?

EDIT: With Kit stepping away for a bit...maybe the IP team could use a little collection of Novice types to help supplement their efforts anyway...? Make us pick up some slack...even make it "part" of the IP itself?

Thank you for this post, and thank you also to everyone who sent PMs in response to my other posts. I will respond when I get a little bit of free time. My mom is visiting and I am very busy with her today, but should find some time this evening to respond to everything.

SamThift wrote:

Brick wrote:

SamThift wrote: Maybe have some sort or "primer" for what people should/need to cover in an intro post so we can get a tad more to relate to in breaking up the monotony of "Hi I'm new here" -- "Welcome, hope you find what you are looking for" type of come-and-goes...

Good idea Sam! At present the Welcome Party message just says 'be sure to post an introduction in the forum', I could maybe add something in there to elaborate a little more on what we had in mind.

It doesn't have to be invasive...I get that a lot of people might not feel comfortable opening up about their personal life, location, whatever might be identifiable...but some weird "ice-breaker" questions..."What was the last book you read?" "If you had to be an animal, what would you be and why?" "Jar-Jar Binks, pathetic life form or best character ever?"

Anything to provide a tiny way for people to share some meaningful unique things about themselves without feeling like they are opening the doors of their soul to an unknown online community...but still giving us something to play off of...

I just read the "Lakota Way" by Joseph M. Marshall III, and am now reading a revised version of "Black Elk Speaks" by John G. Neihardt
I would be a penguin so I could swim in icy cold water, eat tons of fish, and walk funny.
Jar-Jar was annoying...but I feel like he offered us an opportunity to evaluate our own prejudices.

Cross-posting just in case it is more useful here than in that other thread...

Maybe it would help if there were more explicit encouragement to newcomers to get involved in conversations. Rather than just "hi, welcome" we could ask people to find a topic they think is interesting somewhere in the forum and to post in it. Something like that, to encourage participation.

Maybe I'm just a brash jerk - When I joined up I got a welcome message (which to be frank, I ignored, because I had no way of knowing if it was real or automatic)

and then I just jumped into the forums (that's a lie, I was inactive for 6 months) but as soon as I DID start getting involved, I ended up getting into convos with Jester or others and it was all tea and biscuits from there.


The welcome team does a great job making sure introduction posts don't go unnoticed, and any time I've seen a newcomer in the Chat they've been a rough "breakdown" of what we do here and what we "believe" (filtered through whoever they happen to bump into in the chat! I feel sorry for the ones who meet me, but usually Kit or another responsible Knight or Apprentice is there to keep me honest, and keep the message "on brand" )

ANYWAY - My point is - A bit of exploration and proactiveness from any new member will serve them well from there. You can't spoon feed everything, and you'll burn yourself out extending too much to new members (who lets me honest, we get a lot more sign-ups that we do long term students)


If people need more cuddles, then they're free to ask for them

I think that if someone new messages you, you should respond. I know I'm not the only one who has dealt with that. If you're in an official position, and you don't respond to messages (for whatever reason including legitimate ones), it gives the Temple a bad image.

I agree Nami. I'm pretty sure I've responded to any messages I've ever been sent. I try too at least.

Sometimes it can take a while, because of timezones and life getting in the way. But I think most people respond to things eventually.

I'm sorry if this hasn't been your experience here

It hasn't been the case for me. Both times it happened it was because they have been busy, which on one hand is understandable, but on the other hand.. it kinda hurt. Then I read someone else having the same issue, and that broke my heart.

Edit: I'm not gonna name names, cause they are both awesome people and had their own stuff going on. It's just an example, and I know that at least one other person had unanswered pm's, so it's why I'm mentioning it.

In one of our PM's Twigga made the following suggestion that I think quite good.

Twigga wrote:

I read your forum post about how to improve newcomers' experiences in TOTJO... The IP is quite "brains heavy", and perhaps there should be a goal setting aspect - that a Participant chooses a goal, and tries it out. That should give folks something to DO with their lives and bodies, so they feel involved; not just something to think about. They may end up writing about it on the forums, be it the "Jedi cookbook" thread, "hurricane martial arts", or a second language speaking group... Or they might build a relationship with their sponsor through it, making them feel more a part of the community.

I'd not focus not on success in attaining the goal, just on setting out to do something, focussing on doing something, and then reflecting on the outcome. It could be a letter writing campaign, meditation, exercising, not swearing, eating better, being nice to strangers, volunteering, spending less, fundraising to donate more to various charities, flossing, cleaning the bathroom, reducing waste, juggling... I really don't think it matters; it should just be something that motivates the participant. The duration should be appropriate to the task, but the length of time the IP programme lasts as a minimum is 60 days? Or it could be two 30 day projects/three 20 day projects... The key is in some reflection on how it went though - for most it will not be a perfect experience - failure will be common - but recognising the success mixed in is good; and how to build on the experience for the future...

Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

*************

At the same time, I like the goal-setting concept, particularly in that it could help the IP feel like more is being accomplished than not. It can certainly drag at times, and it is rather "brain-heavy", which makes progress difficult to notice.

Simple goals (like making your bed) can provide something to build upon, and make one feel more involved from the outset.

Great thoughts Twigga...now, how to incorporate them into an implementable sense that does not pervert the rest of the IP as a whole? For perhaps, the brain-heavy nature of it is its actual essence anyway, and the entire point itself?

SamThift wrote: Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

I saw this earlier in the week! It's a great point.

I was thinking about what you said earlier Sam, about finding it helpful to discuss the IP with other Novices as they're completing it too?

It reminded me that as I was nearing the end of my IP, some of the knights introduced an 'IP Workshop' in chat. I think they covered a different lesson each week? (my memory fails me) but basically anyone could jump in chat as these sessions were on and have a guided discussion about that particular lesson.

It obviously requires a lot of commitment from the knights running it, but that might be something worth bringing back?

Brick wrote:

SamThift wrote: Not being facetious, but here's a good place to start: Make your bed every morning when you wake up. Admiral William H. McRaven

I saw this earlier in the week! It's a great point.

I was thinking about what you said earlier Sam, about finding it helpful to discuss the IP with other Novices as they're completing it too?

It reminded me that as I was nearing the end of my IP, some of the knights introduced an 'IP Workshop' in chat. I think they covered a different lesson each week? (my memory fails me) but basically anyone could jump in chat as these sessions were on and have a guided discussion about that particular lesson.

It obviously requires a lot of commitment from the knights running it, but that might be something worth bringing back?

Certainly. I would always be game for it. I am feeling like I am "over the hump" in the IP now, at least wherein I have tackled some of those larger "read this" or "watch that" pieces which require some basic levels of committment to myself. Yet, I have not had too much in the sense of kicking my reflections back and forth with others. When I have, I quickly pick up on other parts of the message which others noticed that maybe I didn't, but also on the similar trends of thought that we may collect on a subject. So even now, feeling somewhat content in what I have put forth into my IP journal, I would hardly dismiss a "workshop" or "study group" opportunity, permitting life events allow me to participate.

In a sense, I suppose the threads available in the forum themselves are a good way to achieve this, but threads quickly get lost as more and more are added daily. The chat is a good place, and I have used it from time to time to bounce some thoughts, etc., off of others who have gone before me. That too is rather dependent upon availability to stars aligning to get the right people in the right place without the discussion splintering into 8,000 different ways.

I think I mentioned something in the "What would make the Temple Better" thread awhile back, to the effect of perhaps developing a little "Welcome Center" a tad more. Something with concrete, clear, concise, information to help present what the temple is, what it is not, and how to go about diving deeper without feeling like you are drowning.

I know the FAQ and Doctrine tabs do quite a bit of this...but even a quick "Welcome Video" or a nice pretty PowerPoint presentation, with some cute graphics and a simple list of the basic links a brand new member/guest might find MOST useful in starting along their way. Perhaps even a good solid tab at the top, easily recognizable and identifiable, where once inside one is not bombarded with "brain-heavy" information, but a clear understanding of how to create an account, how to apply for membership, where to go if they are a youth, where and what to contain in their intro post, and the basic steps of the process required to begin the IP ahead of developing an apprenticeship and attaining knighthood. The fewer the words the better. The simpler the message the better. All with the intent of not "losing" new members simply because they couldn't quite figure out where to go or what to do, and when they asked loosely, only mostly got "Check out the FAQs and IP and PM me if you have any questions" responses. Something in the realm of a lobby to the temple, where someone new comes in, and has clear signs pointing them to the chapel and the restrooms.

If it isn't moderately evident yet, I am mostly willing to participate in these efforts, more and more daily...but of course, need to balance my own studies and reflection, without diving into a virtual world which is quite literally bottomless, and ignoring the responsibilities of life, family, work, etc., we all have.

Honestly, I love the IP the way that it is. I love that it's brain-heavy. It's one of the main things that attracted me to TOTJO.

I didn't know, though, that there was an IP team and that it was possible to have someone (a sponsor?) check your journal entries before you've completed the IP.

Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

Nami wrote: Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

Campbell and Watts are some mind blowing and complex guys to get. So, I found it best to go through and several times and always remember the order you do them in is irrelevant. I did lesson zero as my last lesson lol

Nami, you have been awesome here I just want you to know I have been humbled by you and am proud to have listened to what you have told us and guided us to do! I hope we won't disappoint.

Nami wrote: Personally, I wish that the Campbell and the Watts was further along in the IP. I don't mind brain heavy, but it starts REALLY heavy.

It does say that you can do the lessons in any order that you choose. Remember that you have the freedom to decide which lesson would be the best jumping-off point for you. It doesn't have to be Campbell or Watts.

@Kobos Thanks so much. I was really worried that I was stepping on toes or speaking out of place.

@Astera I wanted to do it in order so people reading it could easily see the lessons, so they don't have to come through it to find what they're looking for.