What is it about society that bothers you so much?

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Does it matter their both actors, would it have seemed as relevant and important had it been simply two plain unattractive people, talking?

Not that he doesnt have a point, but why must scenereos like this be artificially manufactured for us to pay attention? Therein lies part of the problem...

Like what Zenchi was just pointing out ...



:whistle:

Society is a new-ish term used by the new age of thought.

Back in the days of my parents

.....their parents.....And so on....

It wasn't Society that we tried to appease because that goal is grand and too vast for the little niche's to truely comprehend.

It was "Community."

We stopped trying to make positive change in our immidiant community. Doing local charities, supporting our local schools, bringing joy to the old folks centers, building up strong neighborhoods.......

To instead try and change the world para dime that we barely even see.

Society isn't a burden I wish to shoulder.

But I will do all i can to help my local community.

Alexandre Orion wrote: Like what Zenchi was just pointing out ...

:laugh:

... even our angst is hyper-real.

:blink:

:blush:

:whistle:

Hyper real means manufactured?!

Oh!

Hyper real means manufactured?!

It's a little more complex than that, Ros ... We'll talk about it when I get home.

We don't really have to "manufacture" hyper-reality ; it is the amalgam of simulacra that absorbs reality into its own finality.

Like what Tris was saying there, no one really talked about "Society" much before Durkheim. Even the popular use of the term has come to refer to a sort of meta-entity so that we can engage in blame/praise of an impersonal yet human (sort of) figure.

Until we can talk about this, you might want to amuse yourself by looking up the tendency toward "emergence" in the social theory of Pierre Bourdieu ... He applied some of the same observations to sociology that came out of the work of Ilya Prigogine in particle physics (lasers) circa 1980.

"Emergence" has been sort of a hotly debated topic in everything from systems theory to AI over the last 30 years or so (cf. Bob French, CNRS).

Have fun ...

That all the content is on facebook and Society expects to me to "subscribe" in order to be a part of it :laugh:

Is this available from another source so I can work out what we are talking about?

The issue about our 'heroes being counterfeit' is possibly that we make the mistake of believing things at face value... we see ourselves as complicated but others as simple... nobody is counterfeit, everyone is themselves, we just don't see it all. Hypocrisy is human, lies are human, but we fool ourselves into believing that other people are all truthful, when they're just not. This isn't me being all cynical btw, it's just how things are.

The manufactured nature of our lives bothers me.. the world is more connected now.. people miles and miles away can decide what adverts I see... but media isn't a new thing. When the printing press was invented suddenly anybody could print anything and say anything (legal or otherwise)... and they did.. they said what they liked then (true or not) as people do now.

i believe that watching this kind of "manufactured artificiality" as Zenchi named it makes people self righteous and shallow (and its just not ok to both self righteous AND shallow, at least pick one and stay there lol)

"the entertainment industry" seems like it is deliberately engineered to make people stupid
so i guess thats part of MY answer to the question; shallowness bothers me, artificiality bothers me, and the way that people with political and monetary agendas negatively influence the intellectual climate of popular culture bothers me to no end

anyway, it was very appropriate that he began his tirade with the words "bullshit masquerading as insight" lol

this character is kind of a composite/portrayal of almost every reasonably affluent, quasi-intellectual 20 yr old in -- well in the whole damn multiverse probably which also includes all of the past and the future lol

im pretty sure that it is genetically impossible for the 20 yr old human head to be anywhere other than firmly inside of the 20 yr old rectum, though we all think we are the exception at that age lol

what is "society"?

how about "the organizational efforts of those who lived before me" ??

thats one way he/we could see it, and from that view we could say that society was the context within which his parents were born, grew, met, fell for each other, had sex, carried him to term, fed clothed and protected him for like 20 years, so that he could grow just clever enough to think that he knows better than the billions of previous years of evolution which got us up to this point as a species

he judges society as falling short of standards which society itself actually taught him to value lol

in short: he is peeing on the platter that feeds him

Relativity = we are always going to be able to say "things are not as good as they could be" or even "things are not as good as they SHOULD be"

because things are relative and we can recognize that gradation of "worse" to "better" it is possible to envision a "better" version of whatever we have, including "society"

now you can choose to despise the very thing which bore you into being if you want to, but a more useful option is to accept your own responsibility in making positive change, pick up the torch and learn to participate with society in a way that you yourself know to be fair and ethical

dont just be a critic of what you think is wrong, be an example of how to do things right

Theater is one of the oldest art forms in which the writer lets an actor express her or his thoughts and feelings. Zenchi appears to completely negate the value of art a medium of expression. That an actor spoke the writer's speech does not negate the message. Theater and fiction are a perfectly good forms through which to speak the truth.

The message here echoes Nietzsche. Some parts of the actor's monologue expresses my experience and criticism of popular society, but not all society. Indeed, some heroes are manufactured, some so designated deny the status, while other heroes go unsung. The speaker expresses disappointed that the manufactured heroes turn out to be merely human after all; hardly news to anyone who has been paying even the least little attention, to which I would suggest something akin to 'grow up'. Harsh perhaps, but to me the point is to be our own heroes (a definition of Jediism), or to give up the need for heroes at all.

Alan wrote: Theater is one of the oldest art forms in which the writer lets an actor express her or his thoughts and feelings. Zenchi appears to completely negate the value of art a medium of expression.

Not at all, seems you may have missed my point, and if I didn't make that clear I do apologize. I don't ignore the value of artistic expression, I rely upon it to make a living. I asked questions for a reason, because as it seems to me the external, artificial perspective is all we're concerned with anymore, it's where many of us go to seek "truth."

I'm just as guilty as the next person. Adi corrected me on using a Harrison Ford pic holding a sign that suggested "don't vote." Turns out the pic was photoshopped, lol.

I had a classmate in school deliver the same speech at some point (not as eloquent, but including relevant points). I remember watching him, casting a disdainful glance across his shiny new IPhone, speaking about the terrible, terrible thing globalization is.

Hypocrite.

You want to lecture on the horrible society from the safety of your recliner while sipping on your Italian coffee and scrolling on your smartphone? Don’t mind if I don’t take you seriously. Fake insight, fake heroes … those are always the others. Couldn’t be me, proclaiming the truth from my comfy spot, certainly not, after all I speak out against it!
Why yes, I do think that a lot of society is shit but damn, it’s the best shit we’ve had in a long, long time. Especially when pointing out the thread about human progress (what, with how people live longer and better than ever and such).
They sneer at society, speaking with disgust in their voice while reaping the benefits, living it, and engaging its’ very core elements. Like posting a video of their repulsion of Facebook of all things. Got to appreciate the irony right there.
Now run along, sedate yourself with the hoax of seeing through this, the lie of being different because you see. You can enjoy the benefits, after all you are not fooled by it, right?

I liked Watt’s take on this. Those who proclaim to be without ego, are those whose ego has reached the last stage of self-preservation: Feigning not be there anymore. I think it applies here to. Thinking they know and see they are engulfed in their own hubris. Proven by how they change nothing, deny themselves nothing, unwilling to give up any of these sedative things.

Hypocrite.

To be fair, it is very difficult not to be a hypocrite in this situation.... we are all part of a system that has issues, and we are all actively participating in said system, and we all benefit from said system (for the most part).

Many of us are hypocrites, who shout about world peace, but do nothing to further it, or environmental destruction, but still drive our cars 1 mile round the corner. No-one is perfect, no-one is doing all they can... and I say this as someone who knows they can do more, and should.

It's not about hypocrisy, it's about the message. Don't worry about who the speaker is, or what they do, listen to what they're saying... a message has value even without its speaker (especially without its speaker). What can you do? (General 'you')

I m not sure what this topic is about.
Me personally, I have gotten to the point, a very long road, where society has minimal effect on me.
My uncle Curtiss told me one time, " carlus...u know what I do with my teeth when they hurt? " naturally my reply was what's that uncle Curtiss. He loved this one because he would pull them out and yell with a gum filled smile to the teeth on the counter " go ahead and hurt there."
Crude but the point is of some things bother us so much... maybe we should... take em out a bit. I am fortunate to be a free mi.ded thinker in a sense I no longer subscribe to the common thought and therefore do not often have the common annoyances and results as being " in it" it's a hard thing. So many times its the road less traveled that I choose cuz, it's less traveled and less paved with common opportunities to stumble. If society wants to hurt and maim them selfsame so be it. You can choose to NOT follow the common trend flow. All in all I like society. I like the places I take my family, I like to see the sights and marvels of the world, but I have learned you don't have to be a mechanic to be the only one "allowed" to wave at a pretty sweet car when it passes by, or be a musician, to sing along with my wife when I hear a song we know on the radio, anywhere. We have found our own set of rules. That is one of many possible solutions I think. What's wrong with society, to me, nothing. Am I part of it duhh...but I'm not common. We don't have to be similar to the things we see. There's no rule that says WE the PEOPLE must act all like this. I give the space needed some times. Hope this is another view rather than the common.

I think building up and having to break down our perception of the world is part of the human experience. I have changed my world view multiple times. I expect to do so again.

This wasn't any more than disillusioned teenage angst to me. Not to down play how hard that stage of life can be. I was there. I felt it too. I completely rejected a lot of things because of those perceptions and feelings.

Now-a-days I am way more appreciative of suffering and what it can teach us...of the benefits of pain, hunger, and disillusion. This isn't about good/bad...it's about things flowing along a river and the dips and turns that come with that journey.

I don't think I'm making much sense.

Because people forget what pain is, and the brain cannot allow that to happen else it will weaken its function in our survival. And so the subconscious has to maintain a continual sensation of discontent weaved through our perception - to allow pain to jump back front and center as fast as possible into our consciousness so we can instinctively react when needed. Like a neuron has a resting potential, its alive and waiting ready to fire up. It 'idles' in this way, and so we can 'sit' in it and view everything in that negative light, but also use it to cast aspersion where none is needed because lets be frank, it's easier to be discontent when others are as well. Because of all this it can make a person feel like anger is the most real version of themselves..... but from another point of view there is no greater hypocrisy then holding onto that tiny resting pain to the extent that we forget what real pain is and so create it upon ourselves and others to justify our fixation on it.

That is my initial reaction, and along those lines all the things he talks about need to be seen in an equivalent or greater context - which is completely lacking and therefore unbalanced and only representative of its own imbalance?

"What is it about society that bothers you so much? "

Too much bull shit. It's a short answer but that is what came into my mind first.