Suggestion: Making chat ceremonies "private".

This is more of a suggestion than a request for help. However, I am asking administrative authorities, the council, the community, whoever this is relevant to,
to read this post, comment, and do something if it works.

So, first, I noticed that our ceremonies (such as this past Jedi Memorial Day Ceremony & V-Tog's Promotion to Deacon Ceremony) are posted to the forums (archived, basically) and everyone's comments are visible. I mean EVERYone.

Secondly, I realized that anyone (including guests) is able to access the chat room during our ceremonies, and they are free to type whatever they wish - uncensored. So far, our ceremonies have seemed respectful to me, but this is only due to our fragile honor system which can be tested and broken anytime.

More specifically, a friend of mine made an account here at TOTJO on Thursday's Memorial Day Ceremony. He wanted to read over our forums, so I told him it should be allright if he made a guest account and use it to read over the forums anytime he wants. I had no idea that he was able to get into our chat room at the exact moment the ceremony was happening, and I was nervous that he was going to say something idiotic. My friend and I both love to joke around, but he has a hard time knowing "limits". Luckily, I didn't see him say anything stupid during the ceremony, and I later met him at school and patted him on the back for behaving during the ceremony. However, the entire time, he was grinning like a madman.


Here are my main suggestions:
1. Chat should still be open to anyone nearly all the time, but during ceremonies (promoting members, holiday ceremonies, certain sermons, etc.) only novices and above should be allowed to enter. This seems fair, since these types of ceremonies (promoting members' ranks, for example) only concern those with ranks themselves, correct?
2. This is important because there is really no protection from someone sabotaging our ceremonies and turning them into jokes. And since we post our ceremonies, including EVERYTHING everyone said in the ceremony, sabotage would be very terrible, if it happened.
3. "Private" = Novice and Up Access only.

Ren is working on a site upgrade and when it's implemented we'll have a much better chat that lets us do these things. I agree about not just letting anyone in for the special ceremonies.

thats a good idea..except for the Sermon part....hehe im a little biased though lol..id like to still be able to read and be apart of live services...but that has crossed my mind before with pranksters joining and all.

There are people whom walk up and down my path every day...I fear I should not go out in case they cause me some kind of dispute...from now on I will live in isolation from fear of what CAN happen rather..

If anyone came on to ToTJO and said anything stupid...we can just ban them...it'd not be a heart break if someone interrupted a ToTJO ceremony it'd probably be seen as more jovial than an act of aggressiveness.

However I do see & agree with your concern in the matter and I do agree they should be private but that members + can access it and type...but guests can only view it...

Metsu Desal wrote: I do agree they should be private but that members + can access it and type...but guests can only view it...

I like that solution...but is it even possible? Sounds very complicated...

The problem with making it novices and above is that we make it clear that members are not expected to study the Initiate's Programme if they don't want to. Don't forget (sorry to bring it up again Ren, I'm just using you as an excellent example) Ren is only a Temple Member, so if for any reason he decided to step down from the Council, should he not be allowed to attend ceremonies any more?

But then again, if you're prankster who wants to disrupt a live service, it's relatively easy to become a Temple Member, whereas a prankster is much less likely to actually do any serious work and become a novice...

It's a tricky one.

And here is my suggestion....

As admin usually conduct the ceremonies, when someone speaks out rudely, no one else talks....

Allowing admin time to temporarily remove that disruption... Their privileges can be restored after the ceremony....

Cause that's what woulda happened with your friend Sean...

No one saying "stop" is going to get them to stop... It just fuels the fire, and when the get the attention they want, they'll keep it up...

Also, by the disruption being together, it is easier to edit it out for the forum post of the ceremony...

Hows that sound?

Should be dealing with trolls this way too... lol...

How does that go...

Cry havoc and slip loose the Ren of war?:silly:

Is Ren not our IT sergeant-at-arms?

I enjoy the sermon's and attending the ranking ceremonies. Though I do plan on being here for a very long while, and advancing past the Initiates program, and further.. For the time being i'm forced to take the program slowly, and thus I would be very sad if I couldn't attend the ceremonies and sermon's just because i'm not a novice yet.

I do agree with the concerns everyone seems to have, just speaking as a current temple member that enjoys being apart of ToTJO activities, and would be saddened to have to wait until I could finish this program to be able to take part in them again.

Well, I don't know if it will be possible (haven't tested the new chat yet, other things need doing first). i would probably have to hack to make something like this happen.

However I must point out, I don't think we've ever had a problem like this, we can kick/ban from the current chat and obviously ban from the site as well.

I don't understand how it's a problem for guests to see the log of the ceremonies on the forum either...

What matters is the ability to stop a disruption quickly and without amplifying it. An admin can ban someone but everyone should have an ignore function. Everyone should be able to make private rooms.

With those tools available there should be no need to exclude anyone.

There is no plan to exclude anyone and certainly not members.

Metsu Desal wrote: There are people whom walk up and down my path every day...I fear I should not go out in case they cause me some kind of dispute...from now on I will live in isolation from fear of what CAN happen rather..

If anyone came on to ToTJO and said anything stupid...we can just ban them...it'd not be a heart break if someone interrupted a ToTJO ceremony it'd probably be seen as more jovial than an act of aggressiveness.

However I do see & agree with your concern in the matter and I do agree they should be private but that members + can access it and type...but guests can only view it...

Metsu, realistically speaking, I would think that it would be too much work to constantly ban chat pranksters. You see, I made my own account about 6 months ago, and I apparantly forgot how easy it is to make an account. What's even more disturbing is that each account does not need to be approved my an admin - meaning someone could "create-account-spam". For example, my friend made an account this past Thursday and seconds later he was able to get into chat. While he didn't break any rules and he didn't spam, others could possibly take advantage of that.

Wouldn't it be better to prevent rather than ban afterwards?

Also, I agree with you: they should be private but that members + can access it and type...but guests can only view it...

SeanChing wrote: And since we post our ceremonies, including EVERYTHING everyone said in the ceremony, sabotage would be very terrible, if it happened.

Since the posts of the ceremonies are done in the forums the poster could easily delete the text that was considered a disruption if this were ever to occur.

V-Tog wrote:

Metsu Desal wrote: I do agree they should be private but that members + can access it and type...but guests can only view it...

I like that solution...but is it even possible? Sounds very complicated...

The problem with making it novices and above is that we make it clear that members are not expected to study the Initiate's Programme if they don't want to. Don't forget (sorry to bring it up again Ren, I'm just using you as an excellent example) Ren is only a Temple Member, so if for any reason he decided to step down from the Council, should he not be allowed to attend ceremonies any more?

But then again, if you're prankster who wants to disrupt a live service, it's relatively easy to become a Temple Member, whereas a prankster is much less likely to actually do any serious work and become a novice...

It's a tricky one.

V-Tog,

I still think that only novices and above should be allowed to promotion ceremonies and certain "special" ceremonies, and here's why. These promotion ceremonies are all about formally promoting one of our members up a rank. So, shouldn't members with a rank be the only ones concerned with this type of ceremony? In addition, certain "special" ceremonies have content that only Jedi studying the TOTJO curriculum could connect to, empathize with, and seriously learn from. Now, of course, general sermons should be open to anyone - since general, moral talks are given then. However, there should still be some way to prevent spammers/pranksters from sabotaging those as well.

In regard to your concern with Ren...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Ren is not a Temple Member - he is a "Counselor". True, if he steps down, then he wouldn't be a counselor anymore. You are concerned that he wouldn't be able to access the ceremonies if he stepped down, correct? Well, knowing the ingenuity of all the website admins here, I'm sure they could create a new, special title for Ren and those in a similar situation for him. Basically, they should create a sort of "former Jedi leader" sort of title that would allow him to access the ceremonies as if he were still a member of the council. That would work, I think.

Ren is a Member of TOTJO with a posted Oath.

John he suggested that only novices and above be allowed (that excludes temple members).

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Ren is not a Temple Member - he is a "Counselor". True, if he steps down, then he wouldn't be a counselor anymore. You are concerned that he wouldn't be able to access the ceremonies if he stepped down, correct? Well, knowing the ingenuity of all the website admins here, I'm sure they could create a new, special title for Ren and those in a similar situation for him. Basically, they should create a sort of "former Jedi leader" sort of title that would allow him to access the ceremonies as if he were still a member of the council. That would work, I think.

If I were to step down as councillor I would probably still be admin... I used to have a special title/rank/position as ex-officio member of the board. And I had the prettiest rank bar :whistle: If I were to step down as admin as well, I would basically be leaving totjo (whatever the reason). If this were to happen, that doesn't necessarily mean I would never pay a visit, but the likeliness of me attending a ceremony would be extremely low.

In my opinion, let them all in. I have seen ceremonies on skype, chat and through the forum and from what I have seen the "timeout monster" causes far more disruptions than any spammer or troll could do before they were banned. Yet the timeouts are never shown in the record after and are often used as a joke rather than to dismay people about the ceremony.

Every ceremony I have been to here has been much nicer than any I ever went to at a physical church. I would think that this would help to show guests what it is that we do during services and shares a feeling of community as opposed to the stuffy mass type feeling. This could even be the deciding factor for some of them on whether to join or not, ie. Making sure our services have no mention of getting dubbed with a lightsaber or of laced koolaid.

SeanChing wrote: In regard to your concern with Ren...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Ren is not a Temple Member - he is a "Counselor". True, if he steps down, then he wouldn't be a counselor anymore. You are concerned that he wouldn't be able to access the ceremonies if he stepped down, correct? Well, knowing the ingenuity of all the website admins here, I'm sure they could create a new, special title for Ren and those in a similar situation for him. Basically, they should create a sort of "former Jedi leader" sort of title that would allow him to access the ceremonies as if he were still a member of the council. That would work, I think.

I'm not concerned about Ren...it was just an example. He is a Temple Member...just as Jestor is a Master, Damion is a Senior Knight, Mark is a GrandMaster...being a Councillor is kind of an extra rank, not a replacement. At least, that's my understanding of it.

The point wasn't about Ren specifically...it was about how members below the rank of novice can give a lot to the site and be very involved members without having done any formal TOTJO training, and therefore probably shouldn't be excluded from ceremonies.

Temple Members are just as much a part of the community as anyone else and so probably shouldn't be banned from celebrating with the community

He also said, "Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Ren is not a Temple Member - he is a 'Counselor'".

As requested I'm setting the record straight. Ren is a Temple Member and a Counselor.

I agree with V-Tog. Training and ranks are optional.

Resticon wrote: from what I have seen the "timeout monster" causes far more disruptions than any spammer or troll could do before they were banned.

Hahaha too true!

It's always good when the person leading the ceremony times out, or the person being honoured...it's happened to me a few times! :laugh: