[Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet

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12 Jul 2016 17:07 #247930 by Jestor

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12 Jul 2016 18:18 #247946 by
But is revenge good or right? Just because it tastes good is it good for you? If it feels good is it good for you? We eat a lot of things that taste good and do lots of things that make us feel good, in the short term, but are destructive over time.

I'm craving a double cheese burger all of a sudden.

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12 Jul 2016 18:27 #247951 by
Revenge feels like a compulsion. It is sweet but the more you do revenge something, the more you get in some swampy downward spiral.

I did took my tiny revenges on people who, then, I though betrayed my trust. But it only strengthened the unhealthy bind, never made it healthy or dissolved it.

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13 Jul 2016 17:48 #248073 by OB1Shinobi
i think this is a lesson people have to learn on their own, mostly

if you feel the need for revenge then go get it, better to do what you think you need to do and then have to deal with the consequences and maybe learn from them, than not do what you think you should do because youre afraid to do it

if i should give a caution, what i have is this: "what aspect of your character do you have to draw on in order to commit this act and is that the part of yourself that needs to be fed for you to be a complete personality?"

People are complicated.
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13 Jul 2016 17:50 #248074 by rugadd
We are what we are and the only justice we sometimes can find is in our own two hands.

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14 Jul 2016 03:18 #248112 by
I don't think that revenge and justice are interchangeable...

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14 Jul 2016 17:59 #248168 by rugadd
Seeing the difference is sometimes difficult.

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14 Jul 2016 20:20 #248180 by TheDude
I agree with Rickie. Tons of things we consider bad are hard wired into us.
Take self harm for example. I'm sure nobody here strictly advocates people harm themselves, but the physiological effect of an endorphin release/neurochemical reaction which makes the individual physically feel good is undeniable.
That doesn't mean we necessarily self harm (I personally haven't), and it doesn't mean we necessarily seek out revenge, even if those things "feel good“ or inspire satisfaction or happiness.

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15 Jul 2016 16:20 #248225 by
Humans exact revenge and our bodies appear to respond to the act with the production of endorphins or serotonin. The physiological production of such chemicals is an evolutionary adaptation and so I'd not apply any value statements. Sweet and good may be how we interpret what we feel, but within the context of our shared biology with other organisms, another, more primal adjective might be more appropriate, such as, the feeling of being safe from danger. For example, a friend of mine who hunts deer said that the way of the hunter is to disappear, to become part of the forest, so that the deer do not perceive danger, they 'feel safe' when returning to or entering the place of the hunter. This is also true of birdwatching. I walk to a place in the forest, stop and remain still and silent. Soon enough the birds who scattered when I arrived return because I (the human, the not-bird) has disappeared. Overly simplified, the evolutionary adaptation here is that animals who sense danger flee, and those who don't become food. So, I suggest replacing value statements like 'revenge makes one feel good' with 'revenge produces feelings of safety when the perceived threat is removed'.

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15 Jul 2016 17:14 #248228 by
I think in our distant primitive past revenge was a way to eliminate a foe that threatened our reproduction and our survival as a species. In modern society we still have our biological survival emotions. It takes maturity and self control to keep our beast a bay.

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15 Jul 2016 17:41 - 15 Jul 2016 19:42 #248234 by OB1Shinobi
revenge can allow one the opportunity to vent ones rage and to indicate that one is not to be trifled with, and to punish someone who we feel has hurt us

modern society is structured and indoctrinated to keep us docile, and allow us to be docile, but if you engage with the world you will encounter those who are more than happy to mistreat you

being alert to what others are up to and presenting ones self with confidence, choosing ones company and ones way of interacting with them ect. are all deterrents to mistreatment, but the basic concept of revenge is "if you hurt me, i will hurt you back" and that concept is still plenty useful; it feels good because it is an effort at achieving something which is good for us

we tend to look poorly on the prolonged and obsessive kinds of revenge because being obsessed (especially with resentment and the feeling of having been a victim, which is integral to the revenge motive) can distort a person into something ugly and mean, and socially destructive

in many cases of revenge, the BETTER solution would be to extricate oneself from the situation altogether, MOVE ON, rather than come back and contribute yet another round of cruelty to what is probably an already hurtful scenario, or prevent a scenario from improving, when it could if only you werent exacting revenge over something that you should let go of

so it is usually best to caution against revenge, because the devil is in the details so to speak, and likely there is a devil in your details who is going to drag you down to hell with him, because youre stuck in this frame of mind and your obsession with revenge and your acts of revenge only pull you into that frame even further

and the further in you go, the harder it is to get out

imo revenge isnt necessarily "wrong" in and of itself, sometimes it is the exact right thing to do, im sure

but it is very often just as dangerous to the avenger as it is to the target, physically, socially, psychologically, and that is why "we" (culture) advocate "taking the high road" as a general rule of life

deliberate acts of aggression tend to be met with further acts of aggression, and these acts escalate each other to the point where "external components" of society either take note and intervene or are solicited by one of the parties

you hurt me then i hurt you then you hurt me more and now i am going to call my friends and we are going to work together to hurt you

or someones parents or friends see what they consider to be victimization of their loved one and intervene
or someone in management gets wise to whats happening and decides the best thing to do is cut someone loose
or someone goes too far and police have to get involved

ect

so, there is an intention for a positive/useful outcome underlying the revenge motive, but taking vengeance tends to escalate the situation, and has great potential to bring a host of unwanted consequences (physical, social, psychological, economic, and legal) on the avenger

People are complicated.
Last edit: 15 Jul 2016 19:42 by OB1Shinobi.
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