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[Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
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12 Jul 2016 17:07 #247930
by Jestor
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[Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet was created by Jestor
Warning: Spoiler!https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160629130459.htm
Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
Date: June 29, 2016
Source: Washington University in St. Louis
Summary:
Deep, dark and sometimes overwhelming, the human compulsion to seek revenge is a complex emotion that science has found incredibly hard to explain. Despite popular consensus that "revenge is sweet," years of experimental research have suggested otherwise, finding that revenge is seldom as satisfying as we anticipate and often leaves the avenger less happy in the long run. New research is adding a twist to the science of revenge, showing that our love-hate relationship with this dark desire is indeed a mixed bag, making us feel both good and bad, for reasons we might not expect.
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Deep, dark and sometimes overwhelming, the human compulsion to seek revenge is a complex emotion that science has found incredibly hard to explain.
Despite popular consensus that "revenge is sweet," years of experimental research have suggested otherwise, finding that revenge is seldom as satisfying as we anticipate and often leaves the avenger less happy in the long run.
Now, new research from Washington University in St. Louis is adding a twist to the science of revenge, showing that our love-hate relationship with this dark desire is indeed a mixed bag, making us feel both good and bad, for reasons we might not expect.
"We show that people express both positive and negative feelings about revenge, such that revenge isn't bitter, nor sweet, but both," said the study's first author, Fade Eadeh, a doctoral student in psychological and brain sciences in Arts & Sciences. "We love revenge because we punish the offending party and dislike it because it reminds us of their original act."
Forthcoming in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, the study provides a more nuanced understanding of both the benefits and drawbacks of revenge. Conducted with colleagues in the university's Attitude and Social Cognition Laboratory, the study is co-authored by lab director and associate professor Alan Lambert and fellow graduate student Stephanie Peak.
Its findings are based on three experiments in which about 200 people in each experiment were asked to fill out online questionnaires rating the intensity of moods and emotions triggered by their reading of brief news accounts, including one that described the killing of Osama bin Laden by U.S. forces as a retaliation for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
The experiments were designed to explore whether people are right in thinking that revenge has the potential to make them feel good, despite recent research that suggests otherwise.
"We wondered whether people's intuitions about revenge are actually more accurate than originally anticipated," Eadeh said. "Why is there such a common cultural expectation that revenge feels sweet and satisfying? If revenge makes us feel worse, why did we see so many people cheering in the streets of D.C. and New York after the announcement of bin Laden's death?"
In experiment one, participants read either a "justice-is-served" news account of bin Laden's killing or a nonpolitical control passage about the Olympic Games. They then rated how strongly their current feelings matched up with a random list of 25 adjectives, such as happy, edgy, satisfied, irritated, mad, upset or sad.
Although this framework is similar to one used in a 2014 revenge study by Lambert, researchers modified the data analysis phase to focus on measures of emotion, as opposed to mood. Lambert's study and a 2008 revenge study led by the late Kevin Carlsmith at Colgate University both focused on mood and both found little evidence that revenge contributed positively toward it. Instead, people felt worse after taking revenge.
"In the case of the bin Laden assassination, this person is associated with an obviously horrific act -- the 9/11 attacks, which provides reason why revenge may be an indirect source of negative feelings," Eadeh said. "What our current research shows is that the way you measure feelings can be quite important."
Psychologists sometimes use the terms emotion and mood interchangeably, but there are important differences, as evident in the current paper. Emotions usually relate back to some clear and specific trigger and can be intense but are often fleeting. Moods, on the other hand, may come about gradually, last for an extended time, and are often of low intensity.
In this study, Eadeh and colleagues used sophisticated linguistic tools along with a standard mood inventory to tease apart the differences in self-reported emotions after reading a revenge-related passage. This analysis replicated previous findings that showed reading about revenge put people in a worse mood, but it also found that the same experience was capable of generating positive feelings.
"Our paper consistently shows that the emotional consequences of revenge are a mixed bag, in that we feel both good and bad when we take revenge on another party. This counters some previous research on the topic, by our own lab and others, that revenge is a wholly negative experience," Eadeh said.
To further test these findings, researchers repeated the experiment using different reading passages selected to avoid wording or content that might predispose readers toward a particular emotion or mood. To avoid stimulating patriotic emotions, for example, the Olympics control passage was swapped for a generic description of food allergies. The Osama bin Laden passage was altered to remove wording that explicitly described the killing as retaliation for the 9/11 attacks.
Despite these changes, the findings remained largely the same.
"We believe the reason people might feel good about revenge is because it allows us the opportunity to right a wrong and carry out the goal of punishing a bad guy," Eadeh said. "In our study, we found that Americans often expressed a great deal of satisfaction from bin Laden's death, presumably because we had ended the life of a person that was the mastermind behind a terror organization."
Story Source:
The above post is reprinted from materials provided by Washington University in St. Louis. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.
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Jedi ain't Saints....
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12 Jul 2016 18:18 #247946
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Replied by on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
But is revenge good or right? Just because it tastes good is it good for you? If it feels good is it good for you? We eat a lot of things that taste good and do lots of things that make us feel good, in the short term, but are destructive over time.
I'm craving a double cheese burger all of a sudden.
I'm craving a double cheese burger all of a sudden.
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12 Jul 2016 18:27 #247951
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Replied by on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
Revenge feels like a compulsion. It is sweet but the more you do revenge something, the more you get in some swampy downward spiral.
I did took my tiny revenges on people who, then, I though betrayed my trust. But it only strengthened the unhealthy bind, never made it healthy or dissolved it.
I did took my tiny revenges on people who, then, I though betrayed my trust. But it only strengthened the unhealthy bind, never made it healthy or dissolved it.
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13 Jul 2016 17:48 #248073
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
i think this is a lesson people have to learn on their own, mostly
if you feel the need for revenge then go get it, better to do what you think you need to do and then have to deal with the consequences and maybe learn from them, than not do what you think you should do because youre afraid to do it
if i should give a caution, what i have is this: "what aspect of your character do you have to draw on in order to commit this act and is that the part of yourself that needs to be fed for you to be a complete personality?"
if you feel the need for revenge then go get it, better to do what you think you need to do and then have to deal with the consequences and maybe learn from them, than not do what you think you should do because youre afraid to do it
if i should give a caution, what i have is this: "what aspect of your character do you have to draw on in order to commit this act and is that the part of yourself that needs to be fed for you to be a complete personality?"
People are complicated.
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13 Jul 2016 17:50 #248074
by rugadd
rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
We are what we are and the only justice we sometimes can find is in our own two hands.
rugadd
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14 Jul 2016 03:18 #248112
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Replied by on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
I don't think that revenge and justice are interchangeable...
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14 Jul 2016 17:59 #248168
by rugadd
rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
Seeing the difference is sometimes difficult.
rugadd
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14 Jul 2016 20:20 #248180
by TheDude
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Replied by TheDude on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
I agree with Rickie. Tons of things we consider bad are hard wired into us.
Take self harm for example. I'm sure nobody here strictly advocates people harm themselves, but the physiological effect of an endorphin release/neurochemical reaction which makes the individual physically feel good is undeniable.
That doesn't mean we necessarily self harm (I personally haven't), and it doesn't mean we necessarily seek out revenge, even if those things "feel good“ or inspire satisfaction or happiness.
Take self harm for example. I'm sure nobody here strictly advocates people harm themselves, but the physiological effect of an endorphin release/neurochemical reaction which makes the individual physically feel good is undeniable.
That doesn't mean we necessarily self harm (I personally haven't), and it doesn't mean we necessarily seek out revenge, even if those things "feel good“ or inspire satisfaction or happiness.
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15 Jul 2016 16:20 #248225
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Replied by on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
Humans exact revenge and our bodies appear to respond to the act with the production of endorphins or serotonin. The physiological production of such chemicals is an evolutionary adaptation and so I'd not apply any value statements. Sweet and good may be how we interpret what we feel, but within the context of our shared biology with other organisms, another, more primal adjective might be more appropriate, such as, the feeling of being safe from danger. For example, a friend of mine who hunts deer said that the way of the hunter is to disappear, to become part of the forest, so that the deer do not perceive danger, they 'feel safe' when returning to or entering the place of the hunter. This is also true of birdwatching. I walk to a place in the forest, stop and remain still and silent. Soon enough the birds who scattered when I arrived return because I (the human, the not-bird) has disappeared. Overly simplified, the evolutionary adaptation here is that animals who sense danger flee, and those who don't become food. So, I suggest replacing value statements like 'revenge makes one feel good' with 'revenge produces feelings of safety when the perceived threat is removed'.
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15 Jul 2016 17:14 #248228
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Replied by on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
I think in our distant primitive past revenge was a way to eliminate a foe that threatened our reproduction and our survival as a species. In modern society we still have our biological survival emotions. It takes maturity and self control to keep our beast a bay.
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15 Jul 2016 17:41 - 15 Jul 2016 19:42 #248234
by OB1Shinobi
People are complicated.
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic [Science] Make no mistake, revenge is (bitter) sweet
revenge can allow one the opportunity to vent ones rage and to indicate that one is not to be trifled with, and to punish someone who we feel has hurt us
modern society is structured and indoctrinated to keep us docile, and allow us to be docile, but if you engage with the world you will encounter those who are more than happy to mistreat you
being alert to what others are up to and presenting ones self with confidence, choosing ones company and ones way of interacting with them ect. are all deterrents to mistreatment, but the basic concept of revenge is "if you hurt me, i will hurt you back" and that concept is still plenty useful; it feels good because it is an effort at achieving something which is good for us
we tend to look poorly on the prolonged and obsessive kinds of revenge because being obsessed (especially with resentment and the feeling of having been a victim, which is integral to the revenge motive) can distort a person into something ugly and mean, and socially destructive
in many cases of revenge, the BETTER solution would be to extricate oneself from the situation altogether, MOVE ON, rather than come back and contribute yet another round of cruelty to what is probably an already hurtful scenario, or prevent a scenario from improving, when it could if only you werent exacting revenge over something that you should let go of
so it is usually best to caution against revenge, because the devil is in the details so to speak, and likely there is a devil in your details who is going to drag you down to hell with him, because youre stuck in this frame of mind and your obsession with revenge and your acts of revenge only pull you into that frame even further
and the further in you go, the harder it is to get out
imo revenge isnt necessarily "wrong" in and of itself, sometimes it is the exact right thing to do, im sure
but it is very often just as dangerous to the avenger as it is to the target, physically, socially, psychologically, and that is why "we" (culture) advocate "taking the high road" as a general rule of life
deliberate acts of aggression tend to be met with further acts of aggression, and these acts escalate each other to the point where "external components" of society either take note and intervene or are solicited by one of the parties
you hurt me then i hurt you then you hurt me more and now i am going to call my friends and we are going to work together to hurt you
or someones parents or friends see what they consider to be victimization of their loved one and intervene
or someone in management gets wise to whats happening and decides the best thing to do is cut someone loose
or someone goes too far and police have to get involved
ect
so, there is an intention for a positive/useful outcome underlying the revenge motive, but taking vengeance tends to escalate the situation, and has great potential to bring a host of unwanted consequences (physical, social, psychological, economic, and legal) on the avenger
modern society is structured and indoctrinated to keep us docile, and allow us to be docile, but if you engage with the world you will encounter those who are more than happy to mistreat you
being alert to what others are up to and presenting ones self with confidence, choosing ones company and ones way of interacting with them ect. are all deterrents to mistreatment, but the basic concept of revenge is "if you hurt me, i will hurt you back" and that concept is still plenty useful; it feels good because it is an effort at achieving something which is good for us
we tend to look poorly on the prolonged and obsessive kinds of revenge because being obsessed (especially with resentment and the feeling of having been a victim, which is integral to the revenge motive) can distort a person into something ugly and mean, and socially destructive
in many cases of revenge, the BETTER solution would be to extricate oneself from the situation altogether, MOVE ON, rather than come back and contribute yet another round of cruelty to what is probably an already hurtful scenario, or prevent a scenario from improving, when it could if only you werent exacting revenge over something that you should let go of
so it is usually best to caution against revenge, because the devil is in the details so to speak, and likely there is a devil in your details who is going to drag you down to hell with him, because youre stuck in this frame of mind and your obsession with revenge and your acts of revenge only pull you into that frame even further
and the further in you go, the harder it is to get out
imo revenge isnt necessarily "wrong" in and of itself, sometimes it is the exact right thing to do, im sure
but it is very often just as dangerous to the avenger as it is to the target, physically, socially, psychologically, and that is why "we" (culture) advocate "taking the high road" as a general rule of life
deliberate acts of aggression tend to be met with further acts of aggression, and these acts escalate each other to the point where "external components" of society either take note and intervene or are solicited by one of the parties
you hurt me then i hurt you then you hurt me more and now i am going to call my friends and we are going to work together to hurt you
or someones parents or friends see what they consider to be victimization of their loved one and intervene
or someone in management gets wise to whats happening and decides the best thing to do is cut someone loose
or someone goes too far and police have to get involved
ect
so, there is an intention for a positive/useful outcome underlying the revenge motive, but taking vengeance tends to escalate the situation, and has great potential to bring a host of unwanted consequences (physical, social, psychological, economic, and legal) on the avenger
People are complicated.
Last edit: 15 Jul 2016 19:42 by OB1Shinobi.
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