Jediism and Transhumanism

For those of you who don't know, Transhumanism is the philosophical idea that naturally humans should meld with technology to end our shortcomings and that technology has it's own evolution that will eventually it will weave together with biological evolution. One of the things that come up in very often in Transhumanist discussions is immortality and one of the theoretical ways of achieving this is via mind uploading, i.e., transfering our minds into computers and/or robot avatars. Now my question is, would some loose the possibility of connecting with the Force and claim to being a Jedi since they would no loner be biological even though they are sentient seeing as how the Force is usually centred around living things or would sentience alone be enough to connect to the Force and be a Jedi?

We might never know!! :ohmy:
I split the Force into unifying and living, both being the same thing but located in different degree's of complexity. Such that inanimate natural objects are generally always simpler, and constitute the Unifying Force, while life being usually quite complex falls within the Living Force. So if technology got so complex it could host sentience, then I'd probably consider it part of the Living Force.

Thanks for the question . Every answer will be different , here is mine .
The possibility for my human potential lies in my self, not in any crutch. For me Google has struck a large some of people to not think only to act... The act of plugging in and repeating. For me technology will be a temporary answer to a long term effect. The more I rely on it the more I don't do it my self. This is nott goal in life. Don't get me wrong here is the Temple in virtual time and here I swear as a Knight to defend and honor it ... But I still attempt to maintain my personal way of life. The Force is living. Thru our practice of our own beliefs we can grow and learn . I feel technology is a great gift and a tool in parallel to a stick of dynamite, or a gun or even a sword... It takes the responsibility to know and control it to itemize it best. I do have gadgets and gizmos of plenty , but for me I utilize my tools not conform to them or have them organize me. Call me old fashioned but for me it works. The joys of JEDI ism is to have the choice to choose or refuse. In my life I do both lol
Some may loose some may not some may gain a diferent level all together , it all depends on the JEDI. How do you see it? How does tech. Fitninwith tpur practices ? Your studies? Does it ever interfere ? Does it ever help? Simplify?

In my understanding the two contradict each other. I understand Jediism as being more about getting back to nature whereas Transhumanism seems to be a dead sprint in the opposite direction. Relying on Technology as we do is already too much and is against nature. Nature transcends all because it survives with or without our involvement. I believe that ultimately taking what nature has provided us and using something man-made to "enhance" it would be a step toward destruction. Everything we need nature has provided us. By learning and gaining more knowledge and using that knowledge to gain wisdom we become more than what we are. No machine can surpass that natural levels of the human potential.
Would a "Transhuman" be considered Jedi? They could, Jediism is a belief structure and a lifestyle, it could fit into syncretism and you could find application I'm sure. Does it hold with my belief of the direction we need to start pushing for? Absolutely not. Thank you for the question! Have a great day!

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Relying on Technology as we do is already too much and is against nature. Nature transcends all because it survives with or without our involvement. I believe that ultimately taking what nature has provided us and using something man-made to "enhance" it would be a step toward destruction.

Why must technology be separate from nature? Selective breeding of crops is technology. Using tools to hunt, eat, work is technology. A person who has a heart transplant succeeds with the aid of technology. I do not get the separation.

Of course, there has been a trend that became stronger and stronger since the beginning of the industrial revolution, to embrace technology with no regard to nature. That is definitely destructive. However, as technology evolves, perhaps it will strike harmony between efficacy and sustainability?

Manu wrote:

Athena_Undomiel wrote: Relying on Technology as we do is already too much and is against nature. Nature transcends all because it survives with or without our involvement. I believe that ultimately taking what nature has provided us and using something man-made to "enhance" it would be a step toward destruction.

Why must technology be separate from nature? Selective breeding of crops is technology. Using tools to hunt, eat, work is technology. A person who has a heart transplant succeeds with the aid of technology. I do not get the separation.

Of course, there has been a trend that became stronger and stronger since the beginning of the industrial revolution, to embrace technology with no regard to nature. That is definitely destructive. However, as technology evolves, perhaps it will strike harmony between efficacy and sustainability?

For some tech is a good thing. For some its a hindrances. I hope to see the day when every thing and one can live in peace, but lets face t we live...here lol
I think that will happen when the grred is removed from the industry but...once again here we are lol .
"some day...things are gunna get easyer...."
Its my own experience that when faced with contradiction's, its usually me.

I am okay with replacing lost limbs and all the advances going on there with 3D printers and better and better neural interfaces, but I draw the line at transfer of consciousness. Personally I don't believe that it's even possible as you won't be able to transfer the "spirit" or "soul" that I believe is the main driving force of a living thing.

If it were possible to transfer our consciousness someday we would have to redefine the idea of "living being" but I believe that we would lose any ability to "connect" with the Force as we currently know it.

Kymos Akari wrote: For those of you who don't know, Transhumanism is the philosophical idea that naturally humans should meld with technology to end our shortcomings

Phew! Glad I don't have any of those! :whistle:

Now my question is, would some loose the possibility of connecting with the Force and claim to being a Jedi since they would no loner be biological even though they are sentient seeing as how the Force is usually centred around living things or would sentience alone be enough to connect to the Force and be a Jedi?

For me, at least, the only way to "lose connection with the Force" is to stop being myself. It's my belief system and way of life, there's nothing biological about it. If anything about my mind survives the upload into scurry!computer, I'll still be a Jedi. You can't have me without that big defining element (at least not at this point in my life).

Athena_Undomiel wrote: No machine can surpass that natural levels of the human potential.

I would love to, someday, have us create an AI that not only chooses the Jedi path of its own free will, but can process all of the philosophy better than we ever could because of it's limitless, unprogrammed perspective... then learns to levitate its x-wing and Force-choke things xD

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Athena_Undomiel wrote: No machine can surpass that natural levels of the human potential.

I would love to, someday, have us create an AI that not only chooses the Jedi path of its own free will, but can process all of the philosophy better than we ever could because of it's limitless, unprogrammed perspective... then learns to levitate its x-wing and Force-choke things xD

let me know when that happens, ill stay home!lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfkRZWFHpss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUzFtWNOOOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN57u7-x75w

@khaos
These statements almost...almost...lol prove that we do not normally think for ourselves rather have the "drone"effect. Me personally , I think most of us only do use 10 percent of our brain because we never really make the choice to choose. That's my idea lol .

transfer of consciousness

Isn't there enough crap on the internet now!?

For the moment, i am connected to the only thing i need, and that is the force.
Our human consciousness is merely electrical signals, that can easily be transfered or "uploaded" to an avatar, but the way i see it, we would not loose our connection to the force if our consciousness and with it our vibration just changed host. But of course, it all remains to be seen

AFAIK, there are 3 things: humanism, transhumanism and posthumanism. Transhumanism, IMO, is mostly about escapism into the fantasy of technologically perfect future. Also, I've met Russian transhumanists and my opinion of them is not that high.

"""
Progress is unstoppable.
Nothing's gonna work anyway.
"""
-- Ilya Segalovich

My transhumanisn is about increasing the usable heights of possible experience/intelligence, and increasing the healthy length of it (longevity), having two main fronts; spiritual and technological. Unfortunately the tech side is a way off, but it's fun to think about!!! In fact, the spiritual best builds the intelligence/experiential potentials and the tech would probably be the only way to increase the longevity (with a fair share of overlap no doubt).

Kymos Akari wrote: ... Now my question is, would some loose the possibility of connecting with the Force and claim to being a Jedi since they would no loner be biological even though they are sentient seeing as how the Force is usually centred around living things or would sentience alone be enough to connect to the Force and be a Jedi?

I don't know if we can answer this with certainty, but like others I have an opinion - and I'm inclined to respond that sentience alone may not be enough.

if and when the time comes that machines become self-aware - whether that is born from an infusion of our own consciousness or some spontaneous technological event - a new precedent will have been set. It will be the first time a conscious being will have ever intentionally initiated a new phase of its own evolution.

To me, that bounces against the very nature of the Force. I'll admit to a bias here, but as I see it, the Force is not only immanent (inherent in all life, as depicted in George Lucas' mythology) but also transcendent (having a consciousness and will of its own). Evolution seems to work in this Earthly realm through nature, through biology; the very evolution of the planets and life upon them has depended upon the old Pagan elements of fire, earth (minerals), air (gases) and water (fluids) rather than upon levers, wheels, and microcircuits.

In short, there is a soulful side to our existence that I'm doubtful can be transferred to a machine, even should our thoughts and memories experience such a transfer. It is that soulful core through which the Force operates, and I do not think a machine can embody that.

More pragmatically, if we advance technologically so far as to become another sort of creature that is partly a traditionally-defined human and partly - oh, I don't know, an oven - we have know idea what sort of being this new life-form would endeavor to become. We might not like the ultimate outcome.

Someone (I wish I recalled who) said that we are currently expressing ourselves through a mix of primal emotions, medieval social structures, and godlike technology. Maybe we'd do better to bolster the two weaker legs of that stool before massively advancing still farther regarding the third.