Does "love" work?

I am exploring the concept that the most powerful "force" or aspect of the Force is Love. Love is part of the Unified Force. Is love the force that binds us together or do you call it something else like: molecular bond, gravity, magnetism or something else? Are those all just different names for "love"?

Can love really save the world?

I am wondering if very one just focused on the purest or highest, most universal form of "love", what kind of world would be live in?

I believe in the power of love. I enjoy reflecting on the USA "love in's", "bed-ins", Human be-in events of the 1960s that focused on: personal empowerment, cultural and political decentralization, communal living, ecological awareness, higher consciousness.

I like the idea that if I don't like either side of the game, just don't play it. Get out of it and do what it is that I do want to have in my world: Love.

Can I really get to a state of "unconditional", complete, universal love?

where have your explorations in the power of love taken you?

Me personally, love can't save any one and neither can hate. What this world needs is some one who has them and knows how to use em. Like swords or guns, it's the way you use them and in what manner.

my love may not be conditional but my loyalty is

romantically, i will eventually have a lot to offer someone and i cant give the best off myself to a woman who i know is not honest with me

ive had a really horrible experience with an extremely dishonest and manipulative person

polygamy is not something i am especially comfortable with, but i value honesty and sincerity and willingness to effort far more than monogamy

outside of romance, i still have conditions for association

i can love everyone in a theoretical way, but when i see footage of a gangster beating up some innocent person because they can, i feel strongly antagonistic to the gangster, put it mildly

i do belive that love can save the world

but only when we are commited to lovING rather than being loved

and im not yet able enough to do that wholly

this represents a weakness on my part which i aim (though i dont necessarily expect) to overcome

love with attachment hurts

The Force IS Love.

Nothing more need be said.

Streen wrote: The Force IS Love.

Nothing more need be said.

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?

have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?

betrayal by those you loved?

what of those rare but real few who actually enjoy causing pain and inflicting helplessness on others?

"nothing more need be said" only happens after everything has been said

How do you define love?
And how do you feel you apply that definition to your world?

I don't "define".

"Defining" chops things up into recognisable and manipulable "parts" which are not very useful when 'applied' to Life ; Life itself has only a nebulous "definition". It has some usual characteristics, but even those are just tendencies (meaning, we haven't encountered otherwise yet ...).

Definitions restrict. They are useful reductions for being able to talk about things, but that is where their usefulness ends. This is also one of the reasons why such a wildly unreasonable and unpredictable feeling as Love (as well as some of the others, but I'll stay on topic here) is most aptly apologised in poetry and art -- it cannot be talked about with any certain, quantifiable, reducible or exacting logic. It defies rationality ...

As it were, that is also why it gets under our skin so much. It is paradisal ecstasy, it is the most miserable desert of Hell also.

We don't need a "definition" for it ; the media already brain-wash us enough about what it should look like, sound like and feel like -- because that sells stuff so incredibly well. But, it doesn't really do much for us on the existential level.

Here's what you can do :

When you feel that someone else is a little 'more special' than everyone else you know ; when you get just stupid about everything that person says or does or has touched, as though it takes on the sacredness of a relic (which, in a way it has) ... and you are so terrified that from one moment to the next you could be deprived of that person's existence, affinity or humanity ...

... then you're "applying" it. And you just enjoy it and suffer from it for as long as it lasts.

in "the road less traveled" m scott peck defines love thus:

“Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth... Love is as love does. Love is an act of will -- namely, both an intention and an action. Will also implies choice. We do not have to love. We choose to love.”

he says that love is not a feeling but an action, and that the attachment that we all feel to people we desire is not actually love in many cases but rather cathexis

from google: the concentration of mental energy on one particular person, idea, or object (especially to an unhealthy degree).

the gist of what peck says in his book is that genuine love is not predicated upon the other persons feeling exactly the same but rather on the willingness to invest in the other person for THEIR betterment

he says that love can grow from cathexis but that they are definitely not the same

i agree but thats not the same as being able to live up to what i agree with

in my experience, love is hard and it doesnt always love back
letting go is not easy and there is a great amount of truth in the adage about loving oneself before being able to love another

here is an article

https://radicalreadings.wordpress.com/2011/06/19/the-road-less-traveled-love-its-not-a-feeling/

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EDIT

i would add that i have found, for myself, that in order to love in a healthy way i have to have at least two conditions met - first that i am building my own life and my own world which does not require any particular person to act or feel any particular way, to the extent that i am sufficiently satisfied with the direction of my life as a result of my own efforts

and second that i understand that its not a PERSON i am looking for, its a RELATIONSHIP

the specific individual person is MUCH less important than the way the person and i treat each other

being attached to people has gotten me in trouble

being determined to experience a certain type of relationship

and being set to accept and reject individual people based on the standard of treatment
seems a much more effective formula for my personal happiness and sanity than being "in love" with a particular individual has been

I tend to agree but think its better associated as the living aspect of the Force, where the unifying aspect is more around objective reality IMO.

> Can love really save the world?

From what? I do use compassion as the polar of evil, so yea maybe

I am wondering if very one just focused on the purest or highest, most universal form of "love", what kind of world would be live in?

I think it would take an energetic form, with all things represented as measures of that love. To act in that realm you'd have to define boundaries still I think, as while it might be seen as ideal to be one with and an extension of that 'love' to act within it as an 'agent' you'd likely need to exert different natures and extents of 'love' beyond your agency - otherwise you'd be exerting your own control over all things within a self centred framework. So understanding other manifestations of complex love (animals etc) as different agents then you might end up with a sort of recontextualization of existence - redefining how things exist. It's a bit confronting to face the dissolution of the 'known' to replace it with some other system of perception, but I do think its worthwhile if done cautiously. I find Buddhism to be the most useful, but lots of spiritual/religious path's have great value in doing it I reckon.

> Can I really get to a state of "unconditional", complete, universal love?

Only you can answer that :pinch:

> where have your explorations in the power of love taken you?

Trying to perceive 'love' as a field as a source of information can find attribution to outcomes, but I'm not sure if the association is causal or casual
:laugh:
Finding connections is fun though.

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?

I believe in forgiveness.

have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?

Damn straight. What does that matter?

betrayal by those you loved?

Again yes, but what does it matter?

what of those rare but real few who actually enjoy causing pain and inflicting helplessness on others?

Again, forgiveness. Even when that pain was inflicted on me. I experienced hate, the desire for revenge, etc. But I know these things are not in line with the Force. Like I said, the Force is Love, and Love is Unity. Unity solves everything. There are only two commandments that Christ asked of us:

• Love God with all your being.
• Love others as you love yourself.

i think those are great answers

Streen wrote:

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?

I believe in forgiveness.

have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?

Damn straight. What does that matter?

betrayal by those you loved?

Again yes, but what does it matter?

what of those rare but real few who actually enjoy causing pain and inflicting helplessness on others?

Again, forgiveness. Even when that pain was inflicted on me. I experienced hate, the desire for revenge, etc. But I know these things are not in line with the Force. Like I said, the Force is Love, and Love is Unity. Unity solves everything. There are only two commandments that Christ asked of us:

• Love God with all your being.
• Love others as you love yourself.

Its amusing how selfish you were in this.

Sure, you forgive, or it doesnt matter....except thats not precisely the point.

"The Force is love"

Except hey, there are child molesters, betrayers, etc.

Sure you have found coping mechanisms...

However, the Force is not love.

Simply because there are people who indeed molest children, betray, etc.

Are they, and there actions, and repercussions any less than yours because you have placed yours on a moral and ethical pedestal?

The fact that such individuals exist within the Force, whatever that means, is evidence that the Force is not love, regardless of how you choose to act in regards to those who do not love, but are of and within the Force as well.

They are still there, acting, sending out ripples from those actions, which are in any sense of the word, not loving.

Its not all about You.

OB1Shinobi wrote: love with attachment hurts

And?

and nothing really

i was in a bad mood and i was saying what i felt like saying

i dont feel like saying it today

i think its clear that love and forgiveness and tolerance and flower petals and puppies and long walks on the beach at sunset are all more pleasant and happy ways to live than resentment and revenge and violence

the issues of how a loving person is supposed to cope with the crappiness that exists in the world and still be loving is onethat we all have to work through for ourselves

its easy to say it but its hard to do it

In Jorge Luis Borges' short story The Immortal, a Roman soldier quests for and attains immortality. At first glance, it might seem as though he has received a most precious gift, but he soon finds that because immortality grants one the ability to (eventually) live all possible lives, it eliminates the preciousness of life. Borges argues that our finite nature, that we only have so many years with which to live, is what gives our life such meaning.

I tend to think of love, compassion and kindness in a similar way. We live in a world where instinct often urges us to be brutal, cold and unfeeling in the name of survival. Though I see great beauty in it, our world is often capable of being a very ugly one. And in that context, when the whole world is saying "look out for yourself, do what you must just to survive, at any cost," to love and have great compassion is a remarkable thing - something that I find takes great strength.

Certainly I would like to live in a world where everyone loved one another and did good by one another, but in such a world, our love would be mundane and normal, and not the extraordinary force it can be. So how do *I* cope with the "crappiness that exists in the world"? By loving my fellow living beings and doing my very best to do right by everyone I meet, and recognizing how powerful it is when I encounter that love myself. Because in our world, it really is a precious thing.

Its amusing how selfish you were in this.

Selfish? The questions were personal:

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?
have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?
betrayal by those you loved?

Even if the questions were not meant to be personal, who am I to say what others should believe about child molesters, broken hearts, and betrayal? I only know how they affect me, not how they affect others.

But that's all beside the point.

I see the Force as Love for these reasons...

The universe includes all.
No matter how evil a person is, he/she is still part of the universe.
The universe is made of energy. That energy is the Force.
The Force is all-inclusive.
What is more inclusive than Love?
Love is nothing more than the acknowledgement that all is One.

I see the Force as balanced. Love without attachment is pure and allows the person loving to remain in a position of loving compassion without any limitations or expectations of what happens as a result of that love. Love with attachment comes with conditions. It leaves one open to experiencing fear, anger and hate. These as we all know are the dark half of the Force. This path feeds the ego and keeps the attached person in spiritual bondage.

All love results in pain. Whether or not you are willing to face that pain openly or fear loss are the key to staying connected to the unifying parts of the Force.

As for child molesters, see above for my explanation of the Dark Side of the Force. They become attached, feed their egos, and eventually experience suffering. They are doing something that alleviates that suffering for however long. Like an addict. We are all addicted to our egos and listening to their negativity. Pulling every situation apart and telling us why it won't work, or you aren't good enough, and worst yet, you aren't worthy of love. These are thoughts. Not reality. You are not those thoughts, you are the light in the universe shining on those thoughts. Those thoughts we dwell on will attract like thoughts, eventually you are creating a story of thoughts, that story becomes a visualization, and eventually that visualization begins to manifest itself in reality. Choosing to be mindful of our thoughts, is choosing to shine the light of our consciousness on positivity and co creating a word that is better for us having been in it.

I tend to see Love as one of the most human experiences of the Force, mind you that being an idealized concept of human - not the medium, mean or any preceding modes of self. So yea that is an absolute experience of love being a most accessible experience of the Force to the human... hopefully somethings things make more sense written backwards and forewards

I've read through the posts to this point and I find this an interesting conversation.

Khaos, I like your point, "The fact that such individuals exist within the Force, whatever that means, is evidence that the Force is not love," below.
I feel that my contribution here will be in line with the essence of that sentiment.

Baru, Thank you for starting this topic. I’d like to try to answer some of the questions in your topic-starting post.

This is what I think:

“Is love the force that binds us together?”
A: It’s one of them.
“Can love really save the world?”
A: Probably not, the only constant in life being change, after all; but it wouldn’t hurt to try, would it? I think not. Worse ideas have been brought to fruition.
“If everyone just focussed on the purest or highest, most universal form of “love,” what kind of world would we be living in?”
A: I don’t think any human has ever reached the ‘purest or highest, most universal form of love.’ We might someday, but I can’t imagine it in the present or past. Try to imagine the person who reaches that state. Life as an orgasm without end, except that it’s an orgasm beside which all other acts of love are like butterfly-kisses. No human could withstand that! and still function in society afterwards, no way!
“Can I really get to a state of “unconditional,” complete, universal love?”
Complete love: You can totally achieve that! Unconditional love: Well, you can try, but don’t beat yourself up about it if you fall a little short. Saints have tried too. Universal love: Now, there you have a problem. Give it a few hundred million years. Universal things take time.

This is what I think:

'Love and hate are the exact same thing,' is a correct statement, written along the same lines by which you might also state, correctly, that, 'hot and cold are the exact same thing.' They are two different frequencies of the same thing. You can't point to a thermometer and say, "This is where hot begins and cold ends." You also can't point to life (to people, nature, society, yourself, etc.) and say, "This is where love begins and hate ends." There are temperatures you find hot, others that you find cold, and many, many-many in-between that, somewhere in the middle, are neither hot nor cold. There are aspects of life you find loving, others that you find hateful, and many, many-many in-between that, somewhere in the middle, are neither loving nor hateful. There are temperatures you find colder, and some you find hotter, but your perception of this contrast comes from the difference between that frequency, and your own, natural temperature (if you're naturally warm, the cold-thing will feel cooler). There are aspects of life you find more loving, and some you find more hateful, but your perception of this contrast comes from the difference between how that aspect of life feels to you, and your own, natural aspect (if you're naturally disposed to love, the hateful-thing will feel more hateful).
The confusion comes in our language. I'm not sure we have a word that expresses both love and hate the way that 'temperature' expresses both hot and cold. If there were, then I could say, in summary, that, "Temperature and 'that-word' are analogous; love and hate are equal; the Force is both of that and more."

Thank you,
Ace