Free speech break off...;)

You know, as strange as it sounds, I'm not such a great fan of free speech anymore. Speech can be used to torment/persecute/harass. If it is your right to walk around with a fur coat, no-one should have a go at you for wearing that fur coat. Social pressures through communication are violating the freedom of conscience (to choose for yourself) and I think freedom of conscience is more important than freedom of speech.

Free speech... lol...

People think it gives them carde blanc to say what they want....

"Well, im just being honest"...

Yea, let me say, your being a jerk in the delivery of your words...

Lol...

Fredom of speech is misleading, but that's for another thread....

Jestor wrote: Free speech... lol...

People think it gives them carde blanc to say what they want....

"Well, im just being honest"...

Yea, let me say, your being a jerk in the delivery of your words...

Couldn't disagree more. Just being honest is right under any circumstance. Granted, you don't need to punch every ugly thing you perceive as truth into everyone else's face on every opportunity, but if you do occasionally, it is not you who is the jerk if the others can't face it. Sure, it is you who ends up losing relationships if others can't stand your words, but then again, what value do you think those relationships could have had, if they were with people who cannot appreciate your opinion or your true self?

Now, of course one isn't free to say about anything, especially when those relationships and political correctness is first priority. However, I think they should never be. Speaking one's mind and displaying one's self should neither but the moment I start to compromise between my values and ideals and political correctness and other people's desire to hear certain things is when the line is crossed I cannot afford crossing as the human being I claim to be (let alone as a Jedi).

This is a split in the "Failure of feminism thread...

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/General-Discussions/95729-Failure-of-Feminism

The conversation has turned toward Free speech...

Gisteron wrote:

Jestor wrote: Free speech... lol...

People think it gives them carde blanc to say what they want....

"Well, im just being honest"...

Yea, let me say, your being a jerk in the delivery of your words...

Couldn't disagree more. Just being honest is right under any circumstance. Granted, you don't need to punch every ugly thing you perceive as truth into everyone else's face on every opportunity, but if you do occasionally, it is not you who is the jerk if the others can't face it. Sure, it is you who ends up losing relationships if others can't stand your words, but then again, what value do you think those relationships could have had, if they were with people who cannot appreciate your opinion or your true self?

Now, of course one isn't free to say about anything, especially when those relationships and political correctness is first priority. However, I think they should never be. Speaking one's mind and displaying one's self should neither but the moment I start to compromise between my values and ideals and political correctness and other people's desire to hear certain things is when the line is crossed I cannot afford crossing as the human being I claim to be (let alone as a Jedi).

lol, I think you misunderstand....:laugh:

People I know, family, in fact, think being honest, the freedom of speech, gives them the right to be rude....

You are free to say what you like of course, I am free to dismiss you for your crass delivery, and lack of general etiquette...

If I dismiss you, and you were being as nice as possible, then I am the ass for not trying to understand what you meant by taking offence at possibly helpful critism...

If I dismiss you cause I feel you are just rude, then that is your fault for not trying to communicate in a beneficial manner... IM not necessarily offended, I just have more important things to do than deal with some person who thinks they know how to do what I do better, and, is acting like a butthead...

When being waited on, "Boy, the service sure sucks here. I guess this server doesnt want a good tip" has been exclaimed.... By family of mine...:dry:

Freedom of speech, right? Just being honest....:blink:

Yea, well maybe your an ass, and your constant critique of my work ethic, and desire to keep my job, has forced me to decide to stay away a bit more from your table...

Because my kid is home sick, and my elderly parent is watching them, and Im worried...

Maybe your just an ass, and I prefer to not choke you out, and go to jail...:whistle:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now, I have had terrible service, and I am a really nice guy...

And you know how I deal with it?

I ask my server, "is everything ok? It seems you are distracted..."

Same overall message, it is the delivery...

And, to be honest, and not blow my own horn, I tip well, trying to bring their spirits up...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Second worst service I ever recieved, I didnt say a word....

My family and I ate our meal, and left, and, I tipped well...

The girl, comes running up to me, and says how thankful she is, and how she doesnt have enough gas to get home, and pick up her kid... The weather was terrible, and one one other couple was in the restaurant that night, so no money...

I said no problem, and just told her to have a good night...

My wife ask how much I tipped... I tipped $10 on a $25 dollar bill...

EDIT: My wife reamed my butt on the way to the cash register.. Saying, well, she was a lousy waitress, and she wouldnt have tipped that much, yada-yada...

I defended myself, with the reasons I have already offered, or listed after this, I forget which, lol...

After the girl, who was practically in tears, thanked us so profusely, my wife didnt say another word...

My firat worst service, the girl was downright rude, and distracted, and it seemed we were and inconvience...

So I ask what was going on, was she having a bad day, was the angry...

She said all was well...

When she brought me my food, I said, "well, ok, you seem a little pissy, slamming my water glass down when I ask for more, throwing the straws at me... Just little things...

And her attitude changed... And, of course, I tipped well, regardless...

+++++++++++++++++++++++
As I said, you have the freedom to say what you want...

But what is more important? Saying what you feel, or getting accomplished what you want to accomplish?

Saying what you will, and ticking off someone else, only puts them on the defensive, and you are going to have an issue....

Saying things eloquently, and in helpful, caring, and understanding, manner, will work a long way toward getting the issue resolved....

Which do you see as more important?

I have no idea what it is that has led to this topic… but reading the replies it would appear that the time has come for parties to step back from the table (momentarily) and allow calmer heads to prevail.

Not saying that anyone has said anything wrong, but the way things are written, the language is becoming very assertive.

Many times, when there are topics we feel strongly about or when our own beliefs or ideals become questioned, it is easy to get caught up in the discussion and loose the premise of what we were debating for.

Often times, if I read something and feel an “urge” to respond right away, feel an emotional draw to reply, I try to force myself to NOT, and wait till I am kewl. Many times we think we are cool as we write, but when others read the response, our emotional state is very apparent. At least it seems to be!

It's all good,

Im fine, I am a bit assertive on this topic, but I think politeness is a forgetten nicety...

I actually think our lesson on etiquette, and manners needs expanded, only I dont know how to implement it, lolol...

I thought it was a good part of the IP. And when I did mine, I wrote a bit (if I rememeber) on internet etiquette.

I don't think I have ever undestood the idea which fuels people to go on about "rights" or any other thing that seems to inspire people to varying degrees of insanity. It's all part of a big circle of lies based on illusions. So and so says I have the right to do this. But they are only in power because we ellected them. So we have the "power" to say who is going to have "power" over us and grant us our privliages. Which we don't already have because... !?!?!?!??! When did we loose them in the first place? If I say Joe Schmow is now the elected official over me and he says that I now have the right to breath... was I not able to do that before?

I think that the topic should read, what are we allowed to get away with, whithout getting in trouble for it! That, in a nut shell, is what rights seem to equate to, in my opinion. But if we were all looking out for each other and put anothers well being before our own, or our desires... then we may not have to worry about what we are allowed/have the right, to do.

And what I mean... evry time I see someone speaking of "rights" it is refered to as, "I have the right." Not we, but "I". There seems to be some sort of sense of entitelment which I have never understood.

Now, I'm sure someone will read this and be offended... sorry. It is not my entent to offend anyone! These are just my thoughts and observations... nothing more.
It is my hope that I might say something that gets people to think about things from another angle or perseptcive.

Thank you.

I have the 'right' to do as I damn well please...

However, I should also have the expectaion, and the understanding, that there will be consequences for it...

Im rude? I should expect to get punched in the mouth, they have they 'right' to do so, right?

And then, they have the 'right' to go to jail... lol...

But, the 'right' I use, is the 'right' to be civil, and speak nicly to people...

Thats the one most people forget they have....

The 'right' to use manners, patience, and forgiveness...

Those are also my 'rights'

Life is just so much smoother when good manners and protocol is used...

lol...

Jestor wrote: I have the 'right' to do as I damn well please...

However, I should also have the expectaion, and the understanding, that there will be consequences for it...

Im rude? I should expect to get punched in the mouth, they have they 'right' to do so, right?

And then, they have the 'right' to go to jail... lol...

But, the 'right' I use, is the 'right' to be civil, and speak nicly to people...

Thats the one most people forget they have....

The 'right' to use manners, patience, and forgiveness...

Those are also my 'rights'

Life is just so much smoother when good manners and protocol is used...

lol...

After I wrote my last reply, I thought I may have to reply again and continue my explanation... but you pretty much said what I was going to write anyways!

I would like to add that it is all a matter of perspective. The "bad guy" rarely sees themself as being such and quite often feels their position is justified.

A good rule of thumb is that you can pretty much do what ever you want... so long as you are willing to suffer the consequences.