something i just posted on fb

concur on the lobbying, ren. its got to change, and i hope to help that happen.

its funny you should mention 'unamerican'. part of the chapter review i just posted is on war propaganda. i used the example in the book compared to the absurd amount of war propaganda used in the US now. it would be laughable if so many people didnt fall for it.

Desolous: now lobbying against the lobby

Although I do not recall ever saying that, Ren, I do not disagree with it.

Anyways, Desolous, no Desmond Tutu means nothing to me. You see I performed investigations alongside Military Police Investigations, to me the only people qualified to make a statement on what happened are those directly in the know. Desmond Tutu is no such individual, and therefore is entitled to his uninformed opinion, but it is also our duty as individuals which can recognize our own ignorance on the subject to realize the man has absolutely no ground to stand on. His testimony is moot. IF this was from someone that was in the thick of the situation and took shots at Bin Laden during the raid, I might actually pay attention. But it's not, so no use in giving the guy the satisfaction that his voice bears any value on the matter.

Ah, but those in the know on the bin laden thing are forbidden to discuss it...look at the vet that made "the shot"...he's now homeless, unemployed, and cast aside....no one will listen to him, no one seems interested in helping him...not even the very people that gave him the orders....then there's the one that wrote the book, even though he used a pseudonym they spared no expense to reveal his identity, just so they can discredit him, and stop the book....

I,myself even had to sign a non-disclosure agreement upon discharge

Those gripped by fear act in anger...

Being ex military I believe there are things the people are better off not knowing...military members often must do unfavorable things in their duty...then they must return to their lives after...allowing the people to know everything the military does makes it difficult for them (the former military) to live a remotely "normal" life...look at how our veterans were treated after vietnam...it disgusts me every time I learn of a veteran being neglected or mistreated in any way...it may be because I'm a veteran myself and see them all as my brothers/sisters...

Politicians have no concern with the "people" other than "how can I keep these fools voting for me while still lining my pockets?"...Reagan is is in part to blame for it...he allowed corporate lobbyists into politics which in turn lead to the current level of power displayed by special interest groups....not all lobbyist groups are bad, some have legitimate interest in doing what is right for all, not just a select few...sadly these groups tend to have little to no funds....which as we know in politics "money talks, bull$h1t walks"

alethea, you completely missed the point. no one is talking tactics at all. you should know that i of all people would never try to second guess tactical decisions made in the thick of conflict without actual hard evidence/direct experience there.

the archbishop/nobel prize winner is commenting on america losing its moral high ground in a quest for security post 9/11. and in that regard, i find him imminently qualified to question our morality.

He's using something which he has no knowledge of to explain his position. Therefore he has made his entire point moot. Which is exactly what I'm getting at.

He can say everything he wants, but until he's put in a position to make those sorts of decisions, he really has no understanding of the matter and therefore cannot comment in such a manner that it will have any bearing on my opinion regarding the moral high ground or low ground the US has.

Let me put this into prospective:

During my time in Iraq, I was a guard at a detainee facility. I discovered that our night shift personnel were going to the DEFAC and picking up meals for our diabetic detainees. This WAS protocol, but with one minor issue- the guards were required by SOP AND Geneva Conventions to obtain specialized plates for the detainees because of their religious affiliation. E.G. NO PORK ON THE PLATE. When I found out that they were instead simply removing the pork from the plate I raised hell.

I tried the diplomatic approach by informing them of the error. Didn't work, mostly because they didn't believe that it was a problem. They did not understand that I had a greater understanding of the religious factor present than almost anyone else present in that facility. After a couple of days, they didn't fix it, I went to the only other person that could be considered a SME on the matter. The Chaplain. The issue got all the way up to Brigade before it was fixed.

Desmond Tutu could comment all day long about how the squad that operated on night shift was not on the moral high ground, and although I would agree with him on the subject- I would tell him exactly what I've said here: You weren't there, you don't have a clue what happened, and honestly your opinion does not matter on the subject except to those willing to listen because of their own ignorance regarding your second hand knowledge of what happened.

Argument from Authority is a logical fallacy. He isn't in the thick of the problem, so he has nothing to stand on for his argument.

RyuJin: I'm not going to lie, I have yet to meet a military Mental Health professional which is worth their weight in gold. It's probably a good thing they aren't trying to help him.

But seriously, we need better people in the VA working to get vets the benefits they deserve. I know the women's veterans affairs council is doing all they can to aide women vets. But they really need more people getting involved. Too bad most of us that would like to, need to work in jobs that have unreliable schedules (that's not a shot at companies that have varying hours, it's necessary, but more the fact that those jobs are not wanted so their turn over rate is very high, making it hard on those that stick to the business to get anything accomplished).

By your logic, no one but servicemembers are qualified to posit opinions on the lack of a moral compass found in US foreign policy. Not even an 'authority' on the topic of morality.

Well, what am I even doing here then? I cannot comment on topics alethea has deemed I know nothing about, why bother learning about morality at all?

I think it's more of a funding thing with the va...more money for more/better training of personnel would go a long way...when it comes to treating vets, good intentions aren't enough...specialized training is needed for specialized problems...

I am not American. I am not in the military. I am not a veteran either. So apologies for not 'being there' Alethea but tell me why I should not be considered as having a legitimate opinion when I say that indefinite detentions in Guantanamo Bay brought in by Obama, and which came about as a response to Osama Bin Laden and the War on Terror, are abhorrent and a complete disregard for civil liberties?