Music responsible for violence?

While I believe that music can inspire certain emotions and feelings, I can't help but agree that music is often used as a scapegoat, much like video games, movies, and TV.

To say that music causes violence is a foolish notion. Violent people may like music, the music didn't make these folks violent.

Like Asopo said, "...it's the people themselves."

I had a whole long intellectual reply written and the phone ate it. So suffice it to say, we are a violent species. Its pre verbal; even children and toddlers react violently sometimes to stimuli. So we as humans try to blame it on many things: an unstable home life or upbringing. Too much drugs or drink. For the hell of it.

But some people people need no reason. Music is not responsible for violence. The violent person is. Music is just another scapegoat.

Jestor wrote:

Argos wrote:

Jestor wrote: Inspired by Proteus' selection, Pastor Mark's sermon, and the Day of reflection....

As we think about the past, don't become attached, move forward, just gotta "Let it Go"....

Think about the future, but don't obsess.... Pay attention to now, because it shapes your future.....

And finally, no matter our differences.... We are all "Homies"....

Remember, becareful if you "Run with the Hatchet".,

I find ICP to be very offensive. Not entirely because of their songs but also because 5 of their fanatical, so-called creativity loving "Juggalos" ganged up on a family friend and beat him down with keys in their fist, simply because they could. They had no reason, no provocation, he didn't even know them. Not to mention in places like Denver, they are basically a gang. The name ICP just makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.

That thread is not the place for a discussion, so I brought it here....

I'm sorry for your friend, truly....

The music didn't hurt your friend, but you feel its responsible, in part....

As the recent gun debate has shown, for me anyway, guns don't kill people, spoons don't make people fat, and music doesn't make people fight....

Its already inside them...

Not everyone who listened to Ozzie bit the heads off bats...

Video games don't make kids violent...

Not everyone who listens to the Grateful Dead or John Lennon become peace loving hippies....

This music exists....

And we often seek that which best expresses our internal feelings....

I listen to disco too.. Bee Gees, Survivor, ABBA....

I completely understand and respect what you are saying here. I listen to some music that is more violent-prone as well and I wouldn't say it negatively affects me, in fact I feel like listening to and writing things like that can help me release and relate my emotions. On the same token, for some people, music like that merely lets them brew up their anger and such and it only grows and gets worse.

I agree somewhat with Desolous about the idea of human nature being selfish and dark, I found "Lord of the Flies" to be a good representation of human nature, but I feel that is somewhat beside the point. Granted it says something of human nature, I think I was somewhat misunderstood. Yes, I think many of their songs are offensive, but it's their following and how they react to ICP and their music that I blame for the event. I am not saying ICP is responsible, not directly whatsoever. However, I feel like some of the messages they send and their elitist mentality has given people a banner to unite under that I think ICP would never have intended to have. Nonetheless, I feel like they only embraced it for their moment in the sun.

Despite all of this, there is no clear or direct answer. Speculation can be made all day about right and wrong, and what caused what. I am satisfied with saying that I disagree with some of the messages that ICP chooses to send (or not eradicate/condemn under their populace of followers) and that because of this, I believe I am more than within my rights to harbor harsh feelings to them (by extension) for what happened to a dear friend. Perhaps it was out of line in the first place for me to have made the comment I did, and if that is the case I apologize. But at the same time, I feel a passionate need to speak out against them when someone supports them (posting their music) just like I think anyone would.

But I want to make it clear that I am not blaming music for what happened to my friend. I believe music can be a very powerful emotional tool, but I am a firm believer in free will and personal accountability.

Adservio wrote: For example, I'm honestly surprised no one tried to blame the school shooting in CT on video games.

I can actually show you a video where just that is done if you'd like?

I mean it isn't all these people's fault that their influenced by music and kill people because of video games; it's just the way God made them.

People blame all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. It can be people trying to convince themselves it couldn't POSSIBLY be their fault, or trying to intentionally cast blame on something else for a reduced sentence. I'm sure a media crusade and self-victimisation would probably result in less prison time.

Look at all the crap they tried to blame Columbine on. Look at what they did with the recent school shooting; they immediately went to the killer's facebook page and attacked his "Liked" pages.

If anyone here went on a shooting it would undoubtedly be blamed, at some point, on this movement. If someone does something that isn't accepted by the media or the part of society they're in, they'll use it.

If I went off the deep end and killed a bunch of people, the media would have a frenzy if they got to the contents of my room. Sci-fi fantasy novels, occult works, goth clothes, heavy metal albums, video games... everything they can, will, and have, used in the past.

Argos wrote:

Jestor wrote:

Argos wrote:

Jestor wrote: Inspired by Proteus' selection, Pastor Mark's sermon, and the Day of reflection....

As we think about the past, don't become attached, move forward, just gotta "Let it Go"....

Think about the future, but don't obsess.... Pay attention to now, because it shapes your future.....

And finally, no matter our differences.... We are all "Homies"....

Remember, becareful if you "Run with the Hatchet".,

I find ICP to be very offensive. Not entirely because of their songs but also because 5 of their fanatical, so-called creativity loving "Juggalos" ganged up on a family friend and beat him down with keys in their fist, simply because they could. They had no reason, no provocation, he didn't even know them. Not to mention in places like Denver, they are basically a gang. The name ICP just makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.

That thread is not the place for a discussion, so I brought it here....

I'm sorry for your friend, truly....

The music didn't hurt your friend, but you feel its responsible, in part....

As the recent gun debate has shown, for me anyway, guns don't kill people, spoons don't make people fat, and music doesn't make people fight....

Its already inside them...

Not everyone who listened to Ozzie bit the heads off bats...

Video games don't make kids violent...

Not everyone who listens to the Grateful Dead or John Lennon become peace loving hippies....

This music exists....

And we often seek that which best expresses our internal feelings....

I listen to disco too.. Bee Gees, Survivor, ABBA....

I completely understand and respect what you are saying here. I listen to some music that is more violent-prone as well and I wouldn't say it negatively affects me, in fact I feel like listening to and writing things like that can help me release and relate my emotions. On the same token, for some people, music like that merely lets them brew up their anger and such and it only grows and gets worse.

I agree somewhat with Desolous about the idea of human nature being selfish and dark, I found "Lord of the Flies" to be a good representation of human nature, but I feel that is somewhat beside the point. Granted it says something of human nature, I think I was somewhat misunderstood. Yes, I think many of their songs are offensive, but it's their following and how they react to ICP and their music that I blame for the event. I am not saying ICP is responsible, not directly whatsoever. However, I feel like some of the messages they send and their elitist mentality has given people a banner to unite under that I think ICP would never have intended to have. Nonetheless, I feel like they only embraced it for their moment in the sun.

Despite all of this, there is no clear or direct answer. Speculation can be made all day about right and wrong, and what caused what. I am satisfied with saying that I disagree with some of the messages that ICP chooses to send (or not eradicate/condemn under their populace of followers) and that because of this, I believe I am more than within my rights to harbor harsh feelings to them (by extension) for what happened to a dear friend. Perhaps it was out of line in the first place for me to have made the comment I did, and if that is the case I apologize. But at the same time, I feel a passionate need to speak out against them when someone supports them (posting their music) just like I think anyone would.

But I want to make it clear that I am not blaming music for what happened to my friend. I believe music can be a very powerful emotional tool, but I am a firm believer in free will and personal accountability.

Perfectly understandable, and as you said, well within your rights.....

I was looking for clarification, thank you...

But I also thought itvwould be a good discussion point.... I am not trying to build a case against what you said...

Just get a discussion going...

By the way, how is your friend? A full recovery I hope?:huh:

I feel that the music people listen to reflects what is going on inside. And just because I hear one thing in the music doesn’t mean you hear the same thing I do.

I use music as a kind of “mediation” if you will, or way to help quell emotions that send me to one end or the other. Sometimes what I listen to helps me to express what I am feeling and to let it pass and sometimes it helps to counter it and promote healing.

I do agree with the basic gist of what Ren was getting to earlier; that repeatedly exposing oneself to something can desensitize you to the thing. And I have seen people (that I grew up with) start out as kind, caring people. We all would listen to the same thing. Some of us would let go of it and others would hang on to it. The ones that continued to hold on to the more aggressive music began to look for more and more aggressive things… until it seemed to change them.


Maybe they just became who they really were and NO outside influence had anything to contribute… but somehow that just doesn’t seem right!?!?!?

I am not suggesting that what they listened to was exclusively to blame! But what we listen to does affect us.

I've seen both sides of the story. People who listen to [x] genre who are perfectly normal and others who listen to that genre who embody some or all of the negative stereotypes that surround it.

Personally, my musical taste reflects a few aspects of myself; my distaste for new music trends and loathing of the music of the culture of my generation, hence listening to 70s/80s rock music and classic heavy metal. I also have a mild rebellious streak and have a disdain for the idea of normality, so I listen to alternative music and foreign music. This ironically crosses over into the realm of Gangnam Style. I actually think it's a groovy song. I also like sci-fi, fantasy, and a good story, hence listening to power metal, which mostly revolves around storytelling and fantasy.

Aspects of music can reveal aspects of the self if you really, honestly look at yourself. It's personal. But sometimes it comes down to how passionate someone is about music. I have an inherent dislike for the musical taste of my co-workers because they've got no artistic ideals. They just like what's on the radio. When I ask them why they like it, I usually get a "because I do", or "because it's got a good beat". Which isn't really that bad, I'm just a pretentious git.

We are what we experience. Don't forget the victims of violence often become perpetrators.

nd parenting not to blame? I look at 4 year olds at school and can tell what their parents are like...

You are what you think and you have to be carefull what you feed your mind. I think music/sound is more powerfull than most realize. Responsibility is up to the individusal, you need to know yourself, your limits and choose responsible action.