American attitudes to a few things.

For the past couple of weeks I was in the US or, to be more precise, visiting a friend in Isla Vista, near Santa Barbara, California. Whilst I can see why Americans think their country is the best in the world because it is beautiful and amazing, a couple of things bugged me.

Firstly, there was a serious lack of knowledge or care for anything happening outside the US or indeed outside California. Even in newspapers this seemed to be the case. There were seven people in the house I was staying in and only two of them had left the country, some of them even didn't have a passport. Whilst America is gigantic and in some ways there's no need for you to leave, this really bothered me.

Secondly, there was an overwhelmingly macho and being the 'biggest man' kind of attitude. So many people I met dished out the word 'faggot', 'pussy' or 'bitch' over and over again in a way that wasn't funny or clever, but more importantly they couldn't mock themselves or take a joke at their own expense. It should be noted that I was effectively on a college campus and that kind of attitude would be exacerbated. Regardless that kind of 'macho' behaviour seemed to me to be pretty American and I found very annoying, especially if it was someone who was clearly intelligent.

Thirdly, drinking. Again, I was with students and students drink a lot. The quantity didn't bother me, people drink a lot all over the world - it was the attitude. Why is the drinking age 21? All it seems to do is make drinking seem more appealing and 'cool' to young people. Nowhere else I have been to in the world are you called a 'faggot' or 'pussy' for not drinking a heinous amount in a very short space of time.

I feel as though I'm ranting so I shall stop. However, I am curious to know what the Americans here think about these few things.

(ps. I loved America, it was just these things that ground mon gears)

You get very much the same thing in Australia. I guess it depends on the sort of people you consort with, since people seem to be people the world over. It's a shame that social pressure makes some people act like pillocks but to each their own I guess.

Speaking as a non-American...they're quite stereotypical views of America. Of course, stereotypes don't apply to everyone. I would be surprised if those particular ones applied to many people here for instance, knowing lots of the members relatively well.

But at the same time, whilst it feels bad to say/think it, stereotypes do have to come from somewhere...there is usually an element of truth in them...

Then again, should we adhere to stereotype? Shouldn't we judge each person that we meet as though starting from a blank slate, no preconceptions...

Or perhaps we shouldn't judge at all...

For example - is it automatically 'bad' for someone not to have shown an interest in seeing other countries?

Or is it just the stereotype that all Americans are like that that make it seem bad? Even then, what is 'bad' about millions of people not wanting to go see other countries...other than not being able to imagine being like that yourself? I mean, I can't imagine being like that, but I'm just saying...

After all...I'm sure that we all know people in non-American countries who are guilty of the things that you listed.

That sounds pretty much like college age Californians to me... Lol. Especially in that part of the state.

We Americans aren't all like that (thankfully). I share your feelings of annoyance at the common "American" attitudes. While I am proud (to a degree) of being an American citizen I am also ashamed. There are good and bad things about every country but I can't blame you (or anyone else for that matter) for being a bit frustrated with us here in the U.S.A.

In Earnest,

- Lykeios -

Let me preface this by saying that I am an American from the Eastern US and we get much of the same things here, so it isn't just California. That being said, in every location there are bound to be some people who do not give foreigners the best impression of their country. For example, just being an American can cause serious detriment to your health in other countries, but that does not mean that everyone in every country hates all Americans.

Mace Feibel wrote: Firstly, there was a serious lack of knowledge or care for anything happening outside the US or indeed outside California. Even in newspapers this seemed to be the case. There were seven people in the house I was staying in and only two of them had left the country, some of them even didn't have a passport. Whilst America is gigantic and in some ways there's no need for you to leave, this really bothered me.

While I agree to an extent with the lack of knowledge, it greatly depends on who you are around. My mother, for example, watches nearly every minute of news that is on basic television and spends hours reading news online. Meanwhile, my best friend has no idea, a week after the fact, that a famous celebrity from one of her favorite movies died. Newspapers here are reliable if you read the right ones. The Washington Post, The New York Times, etc. Unfortunately, then you have tabloid trash that is all about who is wearing what, sleeping with who or saying what about someone else. There are people here who do not like to travel so they don't (even to other places in the US). Then there are other people who spend half their lives traveling to different countries.

Mace Feibel wrote: Secondly, there was an overwhelmingly macho and being the 'biggest man' kind of attitude. So many people I met dished out the word 'faggot', 'pussy' or 'bitch' over and over again in a way that wasn't funny or clever, but more importantly they couldn't mock themselves or take a joke at their own expense. It should be noted that I was effectively on a college campus and that kind of attitude would be exacerbated. Regardless that kind of 'macho' behaviour seemed to me to be pretty American and I found very annoying, especially if it was someone who was clearly intelligent.

On a college campus this does not surprise me in the slightest. Much of this has to do with the generation that these kids are growing up in. That type of language permeates much of American television, music, movies and games. It often goes in their ears and then comes out their mouths. One of the greatest faults I ever thought happened in American society, was when parents started getting arrested for spanking their child. Bullying, bad attitudes, drinking, smoking, cursing...these things are harder to deal with for most parents these days than they used to...just taking away their PS3, cell phone and car don't really cut it, in my opinion. Because of the lack of direction being given by parents and teachers, children use their own morals to decide what is right and wrong and most of them just aren't mature enough to make that decision yet.

Mace Feibel wrote: Thirdly, drinking. Again, I was with students and students drink a lot. The quantity didn't bother me, people drink a lot all over the world - it was the attitude. Why is the drinking age 21? All it seems to do is make drinking seem more appealing and 'cool' to young people. Nowhere else I have been to in the world are you called a 'faggot' or 'pussy' for not drinking a heinous amount in a very short space of time.

The drinking age was lower before prohibition actually. It was reintroduced afterwards at 21 and there were many attempts several years ago to get the drinking age lowered. Unfortunately, too many people in this country make poor decisions to drink too much, no matter what age they are. The more alcohol becomes readily available, even if the person is a 14 year old who regularly steals it from their parent, they will over-indulge and make poor decisions. This again goes back to the maturity aspect. There are people who are quite mature, avoid peer pressure and make great decisions no matter what age. For example, I recently heard of a 13 year old who cleaned up her mother every day after her mother would get trashed and pass out. This girl was often on her own but she showed impressive maturity for her age and took care of the person who was supposed to take care of her. On colleges, drinking is more or less part of an initiation tactic most of the time. College fraternities are often similar to popularity contests.

From your descriptions of the place you stayed, it sounds like you were at a college Frat House. This would explain a lot about why you experienced "America" as you did. Perhaps if you visit in the future, attempt to stay with someone who is not on a college campus and see if you feel a difference in the tone.

First off, I would say that it sounds as though you were hanging around a predominately younger crowd. But, those behaviors can be found all throughout the U.S.

Not only am I an American, but I fought to protect their rights to behave in such manors. Of course I do not agree that any of it should be considered acceptable, who am I to judge? I feel that the important thing is how you perceived the whole experience and what you took from it.

You and I being from different backgrounds and social structures will see things differently or find different things to be acceptable. And by acceptable I do not mean what we would participate in but what we will tolerate to occur.

In the Hagakure it states…
It is a fact that fish will not live where the water is too clear. But if there is duckweed or something, the fish will hide under the shadow and thrive. Thus the lower classes will live in tranquility and thrive if certain matters are overlooked and left unheard.

Just a little food for thought…

I think America has an increasingly serious problem with douchebaggery. They have to drive a pickup truck, preferably one with rubber testes attached at the back. (This is also becoming a problem in my own country, though obviously not as serious, something which, as wescli points out, should not be overlooked imo)

Haha, I have seen one or two of those trucks, Master ren, but I think that's a little bit more of a southern thing. They aren't very common around me.

I agree with you that a lot of the cause of this behavior is simply due to being around people who are older (but still young in a lot of ways) who are, maybe for the first time, experiencing uninhibited freedom to do basically as they please, around like-minded sorts who are doing the same thing.

In that sort of situation, people tend to default to the lowest common denominator among themselves. Overindulgence, ignorance and immaturity are much easier than wisdom, after all.

Regarding the language issue, I think Resticon said it well, in the ear and out the mouth. But there is also a valid point about using that kind of language without being able to stand mocking themselves. Frankly, I don't understand that; my friends and I grew up using that kind of language to each other, insulting and mocking ourselves and each other in jest and none of us care. With us it's an intergroup dynamic; we don't treat anyone else that way but ourselves, because we all know we're just kidding around and won't care or get offended. I would honestly think that using that kind of language would breed the ability to take it well when used against you. Maybe, given the college atmosphere it comes down to insecurity and wanting to be seen as the big man on campus.

As for the drinking situation, I confess I'm conflicted on it. On one hand I sincerely believe that the minimum age being so high makes an almost mythical thing out of alcohol, leading to rampant overindulgence. But I can also see the logic in trying to keep it out of the hands of those too immature to handle it. But I agree that the attitude that seems to be prevailing is horrendous and can be summed up as "drink often and to the point of sickness, or you aren't a cool or likable person." Drinking for the express purpose of getting drunk is something I don't like much; in my opinion it's a sign of personal weakness and lack of self-discipline.

The only other thing I can really say about it is my hope that, people who are like this when they are young will eventually grow up and realize that those maybe aren't the best choices. Maybe this sort of thing is like society's detox program; ideally you go ahead and indulge and make the stupid mistakes and act like a fool and get all the nonsense out of your system before you settle down to become a responsible human being.

College kids are an interesting phenomenon. They're legally considered adults...but the way many at universities conduct themselves contradicts that. Many of them have never had to support themselves, and still don't while at college. Sure, some take out student loans and work three jobs and are amazing human beings, but a larger body still looks to their parents to fund their situation. This is problematic for a few reasons: It's the first time many of them have been out from under any authoritative supervision. They're acutely aware that they remain dependent upon their parents and this hurts their young pride...hence some of the machismo. This transitional period drags out over four years...and in that time some come to understand what life will require of them when they graduate from their play-pen, and others do not. It's a set of circumstances that aren't very conducive to maturing OR education. But, if they do mature, the education usually follows. There was a time when going to a university was an amazing opportunity to learn and better oneself. Fortunately, that opportunity is still there...it's just more dependent upon the student. A kid can get a great education almost anywhere if he or she applies themselves. The unfortunate side is that schools care less about the education they give and more about the tuition they receive. Colleges and Universities lose less sleep at night when they turn out sub-par graduates than they used to. As long as the money keeps coming in. I don't mean to turn this into a diatribe on the American higher education system, but I believe it is relevant to what you experienced.

There are a lot of Americans who have never left the country. Part of that is geography. We've got Canada and Mexico on our borders. Mexico I wouldn't want to be within small arms range of the border just now. Canada is Canada...it's a lovely place with nice folks but I think many Americans consider it pretty similar to the US experience. Anywhere else is either one heck of a car ride away or by air or sea. Many cannot or don't care to afford that. Granted, most college kids certainly could afford an overseas trip. But it's not as available or convenient for us as it is for our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic. I think the Americans you're describing may just need a bit more socialization

Whoa...I think as the clock gets closer to twelve bells I become more of a pessimist.