Enslavements
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06 Apr 2012 22:10 #55560
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Replied by on topic Re: Enslavements
HuffPo aggressively promotes worthless alternative medicine such as homeopathy, detoxification, and the thoroughly debunked vaccine-autism link. HuffPo's tradition is neither new nor just a once-in-a-while thing.
As a result, I always approach anything that HuffPo's posts with more skepticism than it may deserve. But truth is, that with out that, I would be a far more gullible person.
As such, this extrapolation of an ad hominim does nothing to denote the flaws in your argument. I would say enslavement would be too harsh a word. Instead I would defer to Joe Campbel "We live in a system and are part of a machine, whether we want to or not" Instead of attaching a negative connotation to it, I feel the best point would be "Given these 10 ideas, are they valid? yes? No? What could be done as an alternative
I just wanted to post the second paragraph more than a critique of Josh's points. However:
1. We are enslaved to the notion that capitalism and money are an excuse to do anything we want in the name of freedom.
This is neither an accurate, nor an inaccurate idea. We self-re-enforce in this notion, not because of greed, but simply the desire to follow as such. In many cases, capitalism in America yeilds to a socialist system we have adopted over the years.
2. We are enslaved to oil and the oil industry thereby being forced to not pursue other sources of energy that are healthier, safer and much more sustainable for our world.
In this, when we actively seek the cheapest sources for the time being. I argue, that we have to understand that just because we didn't move from one to the other in 1 year, doesn't mean we aren't moving at a logical and reasonable pace. I argue that we have to fight perceptions and help to mold it over time, not just say it is enslavement.
"3. We are enslaved to convenience, thereby refusing commonsense changes to our societal system that would make our lives healthier, safer and more sustainable. Think plastic bags, fast food and SUVs."
In this, we must pick and choose. In this sense, he argues to escape from societal systems we ourselves put into place. However, I am struck by the contradictory notion given here. Caution is the best way to approach such things. I have to say that all of these are ideas we ourselves put forth and have to consequentially continue to grow with. Just changing something is fine, however, when we take what we have learned and made the point to grow it out further, we are better off (Plastic bags >>> The new bio-degradable plastics they have recently invented) (SUV's>>> Sport vehicles based upon need. Since I do some geology, an SUV has some use for field work)
"4. We are enslaved to societal blindness on race, sexual orientation and gender thereby allowing ourselves to ignore the horrible ills that people endure each and every day just for being who they are, human beings created in the image of God."
Every generation seeks to improve on the one before hand. In this case, the assertion is that Racism is exceptional to America and we need to look to other more tolerant countries. The sad fact is, however, that America has a far better way of regarding other genders, races, and orientations than most other countries. Had America in this case not taken the lead in civil rights, it is unlikely that the Apartheid governments of South Africa would have fallen as quickly as they did. In this case, I simply argue that the Rabbi doesn't entirely understand the full scope. However, his argument to keep trying to overcome racism and bias is a RIGHT point.
"5. We are enslaved, particularly here in America, to the idea of exceptionalism, which blinds us to learning from other nations and cultures in areas where they may be succeeding better than us."
There is the common point that Americans are Arrogant. Being that I have visited about 25 countries... give or take in central Americas case, I hear this crituqe quite often. In some ways it is correct, that we tend not to listen to other views. However, the notion that we are not learning from other nations and cultures runs counter to the fact that modern America is composed of the many elements of other cultures which has lent a resilliancy to the people of the country. Nowhere is this more apparent than in our workplaces (Work lines alone speak for how we look to our brothers in other countries) to our government (We looked to the great democracies of the past) to our monetary systems (Capitalism yes, but also the socialist portions in our every day tax dollar financing of police and rescue workers, a distinctly european ideal) to how we seek to regard our mythologies by entertainment (Which is apparent for other cultures all over the world). Thus, it is fair, I argue, to say that when you peel back the superficial and start looking at the origins of most aspects of modern life, you find that they distinctly come from without.
6. We are enslaved to war as the sole way to solve our greatest challenges.
I have seen more good come out of diplomatic solutions than I have seen good come out of war. In the past 4 years alone I have seen a number of solutions to the worlds problems that did NOT involve war. Thus, I think this argument is not entirely accurate. However, the point is well taken. Seeking a military solution to those we dislike is not conducive at all and should be avoided as often as possible.
7. We are enslaved to fear, which in turn closes our hearts and minds, similar to the darkness experienced as the ninth plague in the Bible.
No disagreements here. Move along
8. We are enslaved to our media, social networks and 24/7 news feed that prohibits us from thinking and analyzing issues in a deep way, thereby affecting our politics, policies and decision making process on many levels.
In this, you will find everyone saying that they are not. Thus, this is a redundant argument for the real point is that we choose our sources of information, thereby re-enforcing our own world views. We have the choice, and we choose to, by our own wishes and not by an outer enslavement, to follow these. We have an innate desire to know. Thus, we capitalise and re-enforce the very thing we wish to rail about. I find this to be most puzzling because if we want it and buy it, then why would we complain about it?
"9. We are enslaved to greed, which lead us to not share our resources with others, particularly food, thereby leaving billions of people hungry in a world that has enough resources to feed everyone."
In this, I disagree entirely. I have seen the U.S. give more aid and relief in a yearly basis. However, I make the distinction that I am not going to put forth a single political entity as being the chief party of goodwill. During Operation Tomodachi, for example. I have seen a sleepy air base turn into a hub of supplies and people from the states who have gone out to help others in their time of need. I myself have helped out quite a bit as a member of the services who helped out in Tomodachi. Furthermore, I disagree on the greed grounds based upon the trade imbalance, which has become less of an imbalance in recent years and the current oil import/export factors.
"10. 27 million human beings are physically enslaved today in our world, more people than ever in human history. We are all enslaved by their enslavement."
No disagreement here.
This might like a bit of a knee jerk reaction. However, I did take point with most of it. This was an interesting read nonetheless, however I had those specific disagreements because it implies our arrogance has led us to not be a sympathetic nation. Given personal experience, I find this to be contrary to personal experience, nothing more.
Thanks for posting this! I did enjoy contemplating the article.
As a result, I always approach anything that HuffPo's posts with more skepticism than it may deserve. But truth is, that with out that, I would be a far more gullible person.
As such, this extrapolation of an ad hominim does nothing to denote the flaws in your argument. I would say enslavement would be too harsh a word. Instead I would defer to Joe Campbel "We live in a system and are part of a machine, whether we want to or not" Instead of attaching a negative connotation to it, I feel the best point would be "Given these 10 ideas, are they valid? yes? No? What could be done as an alternative
I just wanted to post the second paragraph more than a critique of Josh's points. However:
1. We are enslaved to the notion that capitalism and money are an excuse to do anything we want in the name of freedom.
This is neither an accurate, nor an inaccurate idea. We self-re-enforce in this notion, not because of greed, but simply the desire to follow as such. In many cases, capitalism in America yeilds to a socialist system we have adopted over the years.
2. We are enslaved to oil and the oil industry thereby being forced to not pursue other sources of energy that are healthier, safer and much more sustainable for our world.
In this, when we actively seek the cheapest sources for the time being. I argue, that we have to understand that just because we didn't move from one to the other in 1 year, doesn't mean we aren't moving at a logical and reasonable pace. I argue that we have to fight perceptions and help to mold it over time, not just say it is enslavement.
"3. We are enslaved to convenience, thereby refusing commonsense changes to our societal system that would make our lives healthier, safer and more sustainable. Think plastic bags, fast food and SUVs."
In this, we must pick and choose. In this sense, he argues to escape from societal systems we ourselves put into place. However, I am struck by the contradictory notion given here. Caution is the best way to approach such things. I have to say that all of these are ideas we ourselves put forth and have to consequentially continue to grow with. Just changing something is fine, however, when we take what we have learned and made the point to grow it out further, we are better off (Plastic bags >>> The new bio-degradable plastics they have recently invented) (SUV's>>> Sport vehicles based upon need. Since I do some geology, an SUV has some use for field work)
"4. We are enslaved to societal blindness on race, sexual orientation and gender thereby allowing ourselves to ignore the horrible ills that people endure each and every day just for being who they are, human beings created in the image of God."
Every generation seeks to improve on the one before hand. In this case, the assertion is that Racism is exceptional to America and we need to look to other more tolerant countries. The sad fact is, however, that America has a far better way of regarding other genders, races, and orientations than most other countries. Had America in this case not taken the lead in civil rights, it is unlikely that the Apartheid governments of South Africa would have fallen as quickly as they did. In this case, I simply argue that the Rabbi doesn't entirely understand the full scope. However, his argument to keep trying to overcome racism and bias is a RIGHT point.
"5. We are enslaved, particularly here in America, to the idea of exceptionalism, which blinds us to learning from other nations and cultures in areas where they may be succeeding better than us."
There is the common point that Americans are Arrogant. Being that I have visited about 25 countries... give or take in central Americas case, I hear this crituqe quite often. In some ways it is correct, that we tend not to listen to other views. However, the notion that we are not learning from other nations and cultures runs counter to the fact that modern America is composed of the many elements of other cultures which has lent a resilliancy to the people of the country. Nowhere is this more apparent than in our workplaces (Work lines alone speak for how we look to our brothers in other countries) to our government (We looked to the great democracies of the past) to our monetary systems (Capitalism yes, but also the socialist portions in our every day tax dollar financing of police and rescue workers, a distinctly european ideal) to how we seek to regard our mythologies by entertainment (Which is apparent for other cultures all over the world). Thus, it is fair, I argue, to say that when you peel back the superficial and start looking at the origins of most aspects of modern life, you find that they distinctly come from without.
6. We are enslaved to war as the sole way to solve our greatest challenges.
I have seen more good come out of diplomatic solutions than I have seen good come out of war. In the past 4 years alone I have seen a number of solutions to the worlds problems that did NOT involve war. Thus, I think this argument is not entirely accurate. However, the point is well taken. Seeking a military solution to those we dislike is not conducive at all and should be avoided as often as possible.
7. We are enslaved to fear, which in turn closes our hearts and minds, similar to the darkness experienced as the ninth plague in the Bible.
No disagreements here. Move along
8. We are enslaved to our media, social networks and 24/7 news feed that prohibits us from thinking and analyzing issues in a deep way, thereby affecting our politics, policies and decision making process on many levels.
In this, you will find everyone saying that they are not. Thus, this is a redundant argument for the real point is that we choose our sources of information, thereby re-enforcing our own world views. We have the choice, and we choose to, by our own wishes and not by an outer enslavement, to follow these. We have an innate desire to know. Thus, we capitalise and re-enforce the very thing we wish to rail about. I find this to be most puzzling because if we want it and buy it, then why would we complain about it?
"9. We are enslaved to greed, which lead us to not share our resources with others, particularly food, thereby leaving billions of people hungry in a world that has enough resources to feed everyone."
In this, I disagree entirely. I have seen the U.S. give more aid and relief in a yearly basis. However, I make the distinction that I am not going to put forth a single political entity as being the chief party of goodwill. During Operation Tomodachi, for example. I have seen a sleepy air base turn into a hub of supplies and people from the states who have gone out to help others in their time of need. I myself have helped out quite a bit as a member of the services who helped out in Tomodachi. Furthermore, I disagree on the greed grounds based upon the trade imbalance, which has become less of an imbalance in recent years and the current oil import/export factors.
"10. 27 million human beings are physically enslaved today in our world, more people than ever in human history. We are all enslaved by their enslavement."
No disagreement here.
This might like a bit of a knee jerk reaction. However, I did take point with most of it. This was an interesting read nonetheless, however I had those specific disagreements because it implies our arrogance has led us to not be a sympathetic nation. Given personal experience, I find this to be contrary to personal experience, nothing more.
Thanks for posting this! I did enjoy contemplating the article.
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