Question

  • Topic Author
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
12 years 3 months ago #49900 by
Question was created by
A question i have already posed to Red Lila, is a statement within TOTJO's creed
That says: "
"And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life"
What does that mean to others?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 years 3 months ago #49906 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Re: Question
There are many versions of the same line throughout the Jedi teachings and in the different codes. This something that all Jedi going through the Initiates program must face, contemplate and come to terms with. In my own journal, while working the initiates program, I chose the Old Code to analyze. And I submitted:
There is no Death; there is the Force.
A common understanding of cause and effect. One is not concerned with once they come to terms with the understanding of the force. We are, were, will be a part of the force and the ending of a corporeal being does not signify the end of the one. Nor the beings role to play in the grand scheme. Death is merely a role of the unity found in all things. With that said, I do wish to continue this existence as long as possible, but will not fear this bodies passing.


To further expound upon this in regards to your question and the verse you have selected:
It can be seen as a metamorphosis from one state of being to another. Or, you can view it as the death to the way of life you previously lived and being born into the life of a Jedi. And in reference to the term eternal; it seems to me that most people do not have a good working knowledge of the word in its original meaning. Not trying to be rude or condescending. It just seems that as we grow, our language grows and the use and common meanings of words change with it. And “eternal” is not a word in common every day use.

I would suggest to try and answer the question for yourself. Work the initiates program and make your own discoveries. My Aunt was fond of saying, “The truth can not be taught or learned… It must be discovered.”

Monastic Order of Knights

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
12 years 3 months ago #49919 by
Replied by on topic Re: Question
Let me confuse you further...

I agree whole heartedly with Wescli Wardest in his statements.

Now think of these things also.

In Catholic text it is faith in Jesus and God that when we die we are born to everlasting life with him.

In Buddhist text only after you have achieved total enlightenment through your lives in suffering do you die to everlasting life without suffering.

Many religions have this theme contained within them. Search your feelings and find YOUR answer!

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Jestor
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
    Registered
  • What you want to learn, determines your teacher ..
More
12 years 3 months ago #49920 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Re: Question
I've been thinking about this....

Remember what it was like before you were born....

Yea, like that.... ;)

It won't matter...

But, since you ask.. :)

Like a drop of water, returning to the sea....

There's no start to it, and no end to me...

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
12 years 3 months ago - 12 years 3 months ago #49924 by
Replied by on topic Re: Question
We are all attendees of the school of humanity
Our class room is earth.
We have to pass each lesson, before we graduate.
Just like maturing into adulthood, from childhood
The mystery of the unknown, the adventure to be had
For once we do graduate this school (earth)
Then we will be ready , to be one with the Force.
Last edit: 12 years 3 months ago by .

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 years 3 months ago #49926 by Ben
Replied by Ben on topic Re: Question
The parts of the Initiate Programme that I have covered thus far have had quite a lot to say about the idea that in our physical human forms we are manifestations of the Force housed within a body, and that when our bodies die we will continue to live on through the Force as it exists in every living being. This view is particularly championed by Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts, who are not Jedi but I would probably class as scholars of mythology and faith, and therefore unbiased and highly knowledgable observers if you will, and have compared many religions, beliefs and cultures and seen that the idea of eternal life following our physical existence on Earth is a common belief throughout the history of humanity.

Obviously one doesn't have to believe that this is how it works, but the Initiate Programme certainly gets you thinking about these sorts of things, and I would whole-heartedly endorse it to anyone wanting to question or consolidate their beliefs about life, death, and other such things!

B.Div | OCP

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
12 years 3 months ago #49928 by
Replied by on topic Re: Question
I often feel inclined toward the belief that we are seperated from reality, and when we are free of our carnal form we once again rejoin reality and become our true selves. Every religion with any validity to it teaches the same, in various manners of speaking (Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, for example).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
12 years 3 months ago #49930 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Re: Question
Just before Ninakawa passed away the Zen master Ikkyu visited him. "Shall I lead you on?" Ikkyu asked.

Ninakawa replied: "I came here alone and I go alone. What help could you be to me?"

Ikkyu answered: "If you think you really come and go, that is your delusion. Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going."

With his words, Ikkyu had revealed the path so clearly that Ninakawa smiled and passed away.

Founder of The Order

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Visitor
  • Visitor
    Public
12 years 2 months ago #51222 by
Replied by on topic Re: Question
My own interpretation of this comes from a mostly scientific standpoint.

It is my personal belief that life after my death will be exactly as my life before I was born. Nothing, at least nothing I am conciously aware of. Time and awakened thought hold no domain.

I find this actually to be somewhat comforting, but I digress.

In life, for the most part, matter is endlessly reused. It's often stated that the cells making up all our bodies we once burning in the heart of a star, and so it was. At the end of the life of this star, when these atoms of hydrogen had been combined to become helium and beyond, the resulting dust formed other stars and planets and all the things on them. As a loose example, The food a mother eats is in part expended to help form her baby. The food we consume is converted into waste matter, which feeds plants and animals which all feed each other and the cycle continues.

So for me, this passage should not be taken too literally. I believe such thinking has caused many more problems than it has solved in a number of religions world wide and a more metaphorical view of such things would be more conducive to peaceful and enlightened living. Essentially I take it as an affirmation that after I die, while I will cease to be self aware, that which made up my body will continue to be in many other forms until the end of time, and again I find that to be a very comforting notion.

It's been nice to read other peoples views too, always good to hear other opinions.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: ZerokevlarVerheilenChaotishRabeRiniTavi