ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

Well - there is discussion - and when emotion goes into it then it can become argument.

I prefer discussion/consideration/and action. I believe it is part of the Jedi Code, maxims, teachings and mandated as part of our lifestyle?

But some like to suggest and comment on others' and that can be helpful too...

MTFBWY! (Hello Rev. Hornbeck...)

-Asta Sophi

Asta Sophi wrote:

Well - there is discussion - and when emotion goes into it then it can become argument.

I prefer discussion/consideration/and action. I believe it is part of the Jedi Code, maxims, teachings and mandated as part of our lifestyle?

But some like to suggest and comment on others' and that can be helpful too...

MTFBWY! (Hello Rev. Hornbeck...)

-Asta Sophi

Hi Asta,

I had a smile on my face when I saw your name. I am very proud of you. You are always sticking to your guns so to speak. That is the AstaSophi that I know and love. I would not expect anything less of you. I miss you.

Bro Jack

thank you all for your supportive posts, I am happy to see the \"good ones\" come out from hiding. This original post was made after I witnessed a police officer having \"affairs\" with a civilian in his patrol car. (I live in a remote area and the police do not come up here unless WWIII is breakjg out so I investigated a seemingly unattended patrol car parked under some trees to see if all was ok) Also this week I have been in contact with Christians with detestable actions and attitudes, not to mention some Jedi who attacked me verbally for being in certain places and thereby associated with certain other \"good\" people. I was just feeling extremely fed up with seeing and feeling the effects of ego and greed from those who are supposed to be the models of justice and integrity.
Though I have come far in my persuit of self knowledge, the one thing that I just cannot control is my absolute disgust, rage, and desire to change that which is fundamentally wrong.
I suppose I was anticipating my fellow Jedi to stand behind me (better yet, shoulder to shoulder) and take a stand against such disrespectful people. Correct those who stumble, but if the stumbling becomes regular crawling... I cant see any other course but to step upon the diseased to uplift integrity and morals.

this brings about another topic.. LOL see another post titled \"FOLLOW ME\" in general discussions.

MTFBWY

Rick

I can fully understand you Innocence_Lost !

\"Violence in the voice is often only the death rattle of reason in the throat.\"
-John Frederick Boyes

That we repeatedly do this and indeed other \"mistakes\" is not explained for nothing in the Scriptures as being the blood of our fathers which rests upon our heads.

\"We know and acknowledge, O Lord, our wickedness and the iniquity, of our fathers; for we have sinned against you.\"
-Jer 14,20.

What we do now is what has been done many generations before us. To break with this is like breaking with a tradition, it certainly is not easy. As Jedi, it is time that we may be start up our own tradition.

Rick, I couldn't agree with you more. I also agree that it is easier to say you are something than to be that thing. I have witnessed something almong these lines myself with an old co-worker. He came across as a hard charger/steelly eyed warrior always willing to do the job and lead from the front. This person, once down range (read as forward deployed to fight in the war on terrorism) proved not to be what he had presented himself as. Actually, he turned out to be a whiney baby and could not handle the truth and reality that is war. He would come up with an excuse to not do what was needed. By misrepresnting himself, he shook the confidence of the younger troops that went with him that saw him as a leader and example. It also shook the confidence of his peers and we could no longer have faith in his ability to cover our backs when all H-E-double hocky sticks broke loose. This is an extreme example, but an example still. Misrepresentation will always have ill effects and the truth will show it's self in due time. Just not doing it is the best thing, but people long to be seen in a light better than what they believe they are or truely are. Time will settle the bill of saying you are something you are not. You will slip up and be found out or prove yourself false. It's just the way of things.

What I find tragic are when people make their faith dependent on the behaviour of others, such as a minister. In my pastoral work I met so many who have left a Chuch because for example the minister did not say hello or did not take up an invitation. This MAY speak for an incoherence on the part of that minister, but it also MAY spaek for the incoherence in faith on the part of a member.

Very often we make assumptions about others without knowing that persons inner condition. In the case mentioned above, the \"job\" description does not match up with an experience with real life. What we shouldn`t forget is that we are dealing with human beings: with weaknesses, dependencies, emotions, desires, hopes, problems, experiences.... . Instead of of questioning the coherency of another maybe we should have a good look at our expectations (and where they are coming from).

Jon wrote:

What I find tragic are when people make their faith dependent on the behaviour of others, such as a minister. In my pastoral work I met so many who have left a Chuch because for example the minister did not say hello or did not take up an invitation. This MAY speak for an incoherence on the part of that minister, but it also MAY spaek for the incoherence in faith on the part of a member.

Very often we make assumptions about others without knowing that persons inner condition. In the case mentioned above, the \"job\" description does not match up with an experience with real life. What we shouldn`t forget is that we are dealing with human beings: with weaknesses, dependencies, emotions, desires, hopes, problems, experiences.... . Instead of of questioning the coherency of another maybe we should have a good look at our expectations (and where they are coming from).

\"Here lies the body of William Jay who died maintaining his right of way; he was right, dead right, as he sped along but he's just as dead as if he was wrong.\"

Reading this post it seemed like a good place to issue a public apology to the members of TOTJF and our members and College of Masters. I should know better than to take such a drastic action while in an emotional state and should have consulted with the Bishops first who would surely have talked me out of it.

I'm thankful that good came out of it and it was because of the members here. People made knew friends and there is a new spirit of the idea that we are trying to do the same thing and we are not in competition.

I can only beg your forgiveness. I'm not Mother Theresa or St. Patrick. I learned that being right and doing the right thing are two separate things. I hope to hear from all of you and any thoughts are welcome.

Br. John+

p.s. I can walk on water though ... if its frozen.

John I am glad to see your feelings toward this.
I am glad it has come to a peaceful end.
For some of us whom have been here since the beginning,
like myself, felt torn when friends, other than you and Todd,
turn from one another. Holding the position of Council Chair
at the time of the split, left me feeling uncertain of things.
One feeling was an unclear future,
that has seemed to have changed.
I hope that peace will remain and continue to flourish
between the two Temples.

Br. John ,

I am well pleased with your post. As long as we learn from our mistakes, THEYRE NOT MISTAKES AT ALL!!

anyway, thats what were all here for.. to help eachother in times of need, or clouded thoughts.. I can only hope that folks here care enough to brow beat me when I'm wrong! LOL

MTFBWY

Rick
Tsukimaster

Jon wrote:

What I find tragic are when people make their faith dependent on the behaviour of others, such as a minister. In my pastoral work I met so many who have left a Chuch because for example the minister did not say hello or did not take up an invitation. This MAY speak for an incoherence on the part of that minister, but it also MAY spaek for the incoherence in faith on the part of a member.

Very often we make assumptions about others without knowing that persons inner condition. In the case mentioned above, the \"job\" description does not match up with an experience with real life. What we shouldn`t forget is that we are dealing with human beings: with weaknesses, dependencies, emotions, desires, hopes, problems, experiences.... . Instead of of questioning the coherency of another maybe we should have a good look at our expectations (and where they are coming from).

No doubt there are times where even the very best \"leader\" slips up, forgets, or or is lost in thought when really their attention is expected elsewhere. What I refer to is regular lapses of judgement, when the rank and status of one is worn on the sleeve instead of fastened to the heart. When one takes their position and uses it for their benefit, this is the most detestable. And to be quite honest, if I ever found a leader who NEVER made a mistake, who never fell a bit behind, I would seriously re-consider my trust in them. If things seem to good to be true, they probablly are. That or I was just too ignorant to notice. In that case it would be I who needed a little counsel.


Rick,
tsukimaster