Changing belief or changing behavior...

I wanted to put something out here that I have been having issues with, and as I understand it, others have had similar problems. My Mother has a difficult time with me being a part of any other religion other than her Christianity. It seems that if I am not on the proper Christian path, I'm going to hell. Part of my personal issue with this is that I cannot accept all non-christian people are going straight to hell. I have put this issue to her, with the example of the Buddhists, "so your telling me all Buddhists whether they have heard of Christ or not are going to hell" she basically said yes. This has been going on for awhile now, her newest comment I want to share here, just to get my fellow Jedi's insights and input.

"It is easier to change your belief than to change your behavior. It is easier to change your belief to match what you want to do than to change your behavior to be in God's will."


May the Force be with you.

Krazykoyote

I know it's your mom but... Because she believes something doesn't mean it happens that way. And it is unlikely she will change her mind, meaning you might as well save your breath. Plus, who wants to spend eternity in heaven with fanatic weirdos when you could go party hard in hell with some buddhist guys or even better become one with the Force? Why other religions still exist is beyond my understanding.

The problem, as I see it, is mom is forgetting evolution...

Everything evolves.... Everything....

In the beginning, primitive man worshiped primitive gods...

Then, less primitive worshiped less primitive gods...

Modern man, worships a more modern God....

We are simply evolving again... In thought, this time....

...... Some people are looking for meaning and find this concept scary.... Few like change, in any area.... And to change beliefs... wow...

We kept separating everything... finally, I think we are at the point where we realize that it doesn't matter... A good person, is a good person.... Whether one believes in Allah, God, the Force, or whatever...

Your mom is a tough person to discuss with.... My mom, took it well...

Good luck....

Is it easy to change to something else when you have to loose something else in order to make room? Suffering death (a hard experience for any of us) is more far reaching than simply breathing your last breath, it it can also be loosing something dear to us. Certainly "saying" this is easier than that is even easier than any change no matter what that may be.

What your mother says certainly in a logical sense makes sense, but does she know what it is like to change faith when she has always moved in Christian circles?

Our Creed was written by St. Francis of Assisi, one of the greatest Christian Saints. He's the person who started the tradition of nativity scenes at Christmastime.

One way to deal with this is that you need to know about Jesus. He has plenty to say to Jedi. I hope that you'll read this. http://TempleOfTheJediOrder.org/library/WhatJesusReallySaid.pdf. I'd Right Click and Save As. Then get a Bible and go to Matthew 25. (You can do this first if you want.) This is an explicit description of The Final Judgement and the language is clear with no wiggle room.

Notice the questions 'The King' asks but especially notice some he does not ask. You can't find, "Did you believe that Jesus was this or that?", "Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Saviour?" or "Did you go to church every Sunday?".

Notice what The Bible says on how Christ will judge who's saved and going to Heaven.

Even if you only read Matthew 25 this should give you plenty to discuss with your mother and I'd like to know how it goes.

Knowledge is power as well... invite her to peruse our doctrine, 16 Beliefs, Tenents... Ask what she fears...

Did I not read somewhere, "It's ok to not believe in God, for he believes in you?"...

IF there is a God, no matter his name, AND we are his children, he will love us and accept us for all of our faults, and accept us into the Kingdom

It was bad enough that Jack could immediately think of several not nice responses, but worse, she could also hear several of her characters laughing at her.

'Jack-kun, take a deep breath.' And thank the Force for Taro, ever calm and sensible as Jack calmed down and thought of something helpful to say, 'Actually, the saying is true.'

"...Taro... no offense, but that's not helping me, much." She groaned, managing to smile only because it was one of her kinder characters.

'No, it is -- isn't there something like this in psychology... um... The fox and the grapes fable...'

"Cognitive dissonance?"

'Yes! It is easier to change what you believe, because it makes it easier for you to act the way you want to.' Taro managed to say this, smiling, and Jack couldn't bring herself to be too angry with him, 'The key to this discussion, though, is the assumption 'What you want to do' is a BAD thing.'

Jack scratched her chin a moment, and didn't say anything.

"Like... how?" Taro tripped, unable to answer, until Tensora-san stepped in and fluidly took over the conversation.

'Well, shall we take an example? Let's say a strict Catholic is promoting same-sex marriage. Their reasoning being that lustful knowledge is only sinful if done out of wedlock, so allowing two men lovers to marry, it stops them from sinning. Then, of course, their church's pastor tells them the Vatican condemns such marriages, because it condemns the lifestyle, because of the well-known quote from Leviticus. Rather than abandon a good cause, this person will simply find a verse in their Bible promoting kindness towards others, compassion, brotherhood, or some other such advice that keeps them feeling secure.' Tensora-san gave his speech with several elaborate gestures that would have looked campy and silly if the man himself didn't look so good,

'Or a strict right-wing Conservative going against the death penalty. Even if their peers condemn them and throw all the ideals of capital punishment and justice into their face, this person would simply continue to explain their course of action as practical, economical, or stricter justice. Surely, that is no evil cause to fight for?'

'Exactly! Changing behavior might not be the right course -- for all you know, you're DOING the right thing, just for what someone else calls the wrong reason.' Taro jumped back in, eagerly.

Jack frowned for a moment, before concluding that this was indeed a succinct solution.

"Taro, Tensora-san, why don't we see more of you guys in these discussions? You give better advice." She asked. Tensora-san turned his back and gracefully walked away, while Taro ended up staring at his feet and stammering.

'Oi, Yamada! We're gonna make Kawai eat a whole gallon of wasabi in ten seconds! Wanna watch?' Called one of Taro's coworkers. Jack's eyes bugged, just a little.

"Forget I asked."

Yes, Jack/Sapadu, what you say is true... but, any argument is valid to those making it...

“All evolution in thought and conduct must at first appear as heresy and misconduct.” - George Bernard Shaw

“The evolution of the brain not only overshot the needs of prehistoric man, it is the only example of evolution providing a species with an organ which it does not know how to use” - Arthur Koestler

“The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.” - Albert Einstein

“I've honestly never understood where the problem lies within this debate, ... Science simply explains the work of God. For those who can put faith in God without question, (creationism) is for them. For those that need physical proof, evolution works for them.” - Robert Summers

Ah man, dat's beautiful....

Thank you everyone for the great ideas and things to contemplate.

One of the problems with my mom is she is very smart, but very closed minded and manipulative. If it isn't her way, she will either get it that way, or treat you worse than dirt. I have lived with it, and know how to deal with it, but those closest to me suffer. She is not open for anything to be interpreted or explained any other way than what she thinks and believes.

I have learned a lot over the past few years, enough to put holes all through her beliefs and religion, but I CHOSE not to because she would have nothing to grasp onto. I know that things will have to be talked about again, and I will have to stand off to her with my beliefs, it is the subtle approach that you all here have helped me with, thank you, and any more on this would me great.

Thanks again all!

May the Force be with you.

Krazykoyote

You mother sounds a lot like my brother, I dare say they would probably get along. My brother is a youth pastor as well as a philosopher/theologian. He sees the world in only black and white. I'm like you I don't want to crush his faith and it's hard to live through the personal judgement he has placed on me. But he claims the reason he says what he does is because he cares about me and wants to see me in Heaven with him. So remember that your mother is only berating you because she does care about you. She doesn't see the shades of gray the world has. With people like that sometimes the only thing you can do is agree to disagree.

I wish I had great words of wisdom, but there isn't any in this situation. The only thing I can offer is that I'm here if you want to talk. It's not the exact same situation, but I'll still be here if you need to talk things out with.