what makes a \"master\" a \"master\"?

what defines the concept that refer to as a master?

when does a person become a master? is this an internal or external concept? can it be both?

can someone be a master of something in there own right?

take the term authority. traditionally, to be an authority all a person had to do was be published - to be an \"author\". if i publish, then i am an authority in what i just wrote. is a master the same way?

i am a master of myself, of my life, of my own styles and ways. there is no one in the world that knows me better than myself. yes, there are a lot of philosophical debates that can be pondered concerning that, but in the end - i am myself.

if i do practice something physical like martial arts, ice skating or drawing, i am the only person in the world that will do that act just like me. my body and mechanics determine or influence my movements. therefore - i am the master in my own way of myself?

i find this concept of master very interesting. especially that we feel that this concept must be found from outside verses within.

what do you think?

I think you're treading a dangerous path that's been walked by every diploma mill, charlatan and false prophet in recorded history.

1. The fact that someone is the only person with their body mechanics does not mean that the skills will protect them.
2. The fact that someone knows things that are unique, does not make them valuable to society.

Becoming a \"master\" in anything is about being recognized as a value to society or some specific subset within it. There are many masters that are never recognized because they've never done anything to help anyone with their mastery.

Of course the philosophical argument is then \"Well, what about the first master? Who accredits him? \" The answer to that is a master's students. If those student's lives have been materially improved. If they start calling him or her \"master\" out of respect, there you go.

Of course that makes it necessary for a master to constantly improve the quality of his student base and as such constantly improve the lessons he's teaching and the skills he's master of. Good students will smell out a charlatan and word will travel (especially in the Internet age). They'll also give their allegiance carefully and be very quiet about the teacher they do choose until such time as they've secured their own skills because they care about the quality of their own learning.

Generally, if you see a group of people, all very talented that have been studying with someone for years and are using their skills in their professions while making a living doing what they do, that's a sign of a master teacher somewhere in the works. Especially if people have traveled a significant distance to be there or routinely travel a significant distance to train when they could accept local training.

On the matter of publishing. If someone else publishes your work, such as a peer reviewed journal in academia or a publishing house that makes money off what you're writing, then yes you're an authority. Self-publishing your own blog and writing about something will not make you an authority on anything until enough people call you a master of the field and are willing to compensate you with their time or money to continue it.

I think I've said enough. The Self-Imposed Master thing really grinds at a nerve with me and does in general to anyone who's spent a significant amount of time ferreting out good teachers simply because there's so much chaff out there complicating the task.

Best,
Tatsujin

there's a very old saying... you will not know when you become a master, those around you will see it before you do.



even if you master every skill/knowledge available it doesn't necessarily mean you're a master, it takes the recognition of your peers to achieve this. it also takes a degree of patience, understanding, and humility.

RyuJin wrote:

there's a very old saying... you will not know when you become a master, those around you will see it before you do.



even if you master every skill/knowledge available it doesn't necessarily mean you're a master, it takes the recognition of your peers to achieve this. it also takes a degree of patience, understanding, and humility.

Ryujin.... that is so very true. Short. And to the point.

One of my favorites...

A truly wise man would say he knows nothing.

there for...

we should be ourselves. seek out knowledge and share that knowledge when possible.

if the knowledge is good - there will be students
if the knowledge is bad - there will not be students.

then let the community and society acknowledge who are its masters - yes?

\"then let the community and society acknowledge who are its masters - yes?\"

In the case of TOTJO that's how it is. There are many ways to acknowledge (accept) terms and definitions. Anyone may register and be a guest and enjoy the company and hospitality of the church-house but they are agreeing to abide by some ground rules.

There is always mutual consent since this is a voluntary community.

If the knowledge is good, there will be students if there is demand for the knowledge. The knowledge must serve the basic needs of a person at whatever level of enlightenment they're at in order to attract them.

If the knowledge is bad, and the teacher is charismatic enough to meet the social needs of a person at whatever level of enlightenment they're at, they may still be students. This is why reliable students of tenure and capability are important in the vetting process.

Ultimately the community does determine and acknowledge its masters.

agreed.

in my experience, i find the worst teaching/instructors usually have the most amount of certs. its like they went cert hunting. and now they can show off.

the people i learn from best usually don't have any certs or maybe one that they happened to get along the way. and if they do have certs - they generally don't talk about them. the cert was personal not business.

i agree that we need to be discerning and critical in who we as a community hold high as our masters.

I think we share the same experiences.

That stated to be completely fair I offer my biases. I am a person with multiple college degrees and at last count nearly 10 technology credentials and three martial ranks (albeit low ones, as I too have issue paying for rank.)

So as a person deeply entrenched in the credentials world and knowing fully that any credential I have was earned properly as a factor of doing professional work in my field, I'm obviously interested in making sure that the diligence I show is shared by my instructors.

Credentials don't make good teachers, but there's no good reason why good teachers shouldn't be credentialed. Just my opinion, fairly stated. Masters on the other hand, I think transcend whatever credentials they've earned over time.

like you i'm working on a 3rd degree...not because i want the credential but because employers want to see the credential....most employers don't care if you know more then they do if you don't have something to show....i don't usually put much emphasis on paper credentials i prefer to focus on usable results...if done properly the paper comes along with it(though admittedly not always, as some can get the paper without the product)