The Face of Darkness

Hello.

Firstly I'm not trying to stir up anything here - just curious, particularly since I am new to this list.

Yet, I must comment. I have read a great deal on this board - particularly from mods/admin with regard to the fact that this is a serious on-line Jedi community. Serious as in 'committed to the learning/living of the Jedi Way in the real world' and not a 'fan' club per se.

Very good, that's why I'm here: This place is not a fan club but a base for the development of a serious philosophy. I love Star Wars too and think George Lucas is a great man. Met him once - for about 30 seconds. Hard to get a feel for a person in that time, but yeah, he's a good guy.

Anyway to my point: There are quite a few here who fancy themselves as 'sith' or 'dark-siders'. I truly wonder about that. I wonder if some here might think that they are role palying rather than seeking a path in the real world. Regardless of what 'real world' definition you give for Sith, the bottom line is that they are representative of dark nature. I know that in any system there must be balance, yet for human beings...well we have quite enough darkness in our world. Darkness, in the philosophical or psychological sense of the term, serves only itself and is detrimental to goodly growth.

Sure, going about in a dark robe, giving in to your passions and eating 'dark side oreos' (saw that on Youtube might be cool (hey I like Darth Sideous in the movie too) but I wonder, how many here have actually, really 'seen' the dark side in action? I have. The dark side in its real world manifestation is not a pleasant thing to behold. The dark side is responsible for quite a few very unsettling things in our world. Greed, anger, attachment, uncontrolled passion, uncontrolled desire and unchecked materialism. These are killing us as a people and despoiling our homeworld.

It is a gut wrenching thing, the dark side; it feels wrong/counter-instinctive when one is in the presence of it; its like a psychological version of that sickly smell that accompanies death.

You can play with definitions and alter those definitions to suit you all you want, but the fact remains: The dark side IS still the dark side.It is a dangerous place to go. For those of you here who fancy yourselves as Sith - I encourage you to rethink your motives for such. The face of darkness is not a good face to wear.

'nuff said there I guess.

Qorvas

First let me break the silence that i have been holding for some time by replying to this. First, you opinion is very welcome as is all other opinions from anyone who wishes to come to learn here. I must say though that perhaps it would be best to let people discover their own path without incouraging them to be one way or another, many people have gone light from dark because they want to learn and expand, but, the same can be said for a few (even well known) people here from light to dark.
I recommend you speak to some of the darksiders that are present here before you jump to far into this.

Also, for me the light side is an attempt to not ignore or halt our human instincts or emotions but to learn from them to better ourselves and rise above our more humanistic tendancy's toward violence and anger. The 'sith' on the other hand attempt to learn from those same emotions but use them rather then rise above them.

It is sadly to true that some people do take it to a whole other level and attempt to start drama and drive people apart. It has happened here a few times in the past but those who have stayed have learned to see things coming. So, the dark side is not necessarily a bad side, it is a very hard and important lesson to learn that just because someone views things different from you does not make it wrong or bad.

A hard example to grasp:
There is good and evil, correct, many people view these two sides as set in stone. There are people who do bad, or evil, and there are people who do good, even holy work. But something i learned a long time ago. Instead of viewing these things and 'good' or 'bad' why not view them a different way. Chaos and Order, is how i view this. Let me explain further, a person who kills even though he may be a conidet for the death penalty and i am not one to dispute this punishment, but it is likely that there is something within them, perhaps their brain or even their soul, that is chaotic. Where as a person who has done good their whole life, saved people, fed the homeless, and takes care of himself and his family could be said to be orderly, he functions without chaos, everything in him is in place and he needs not step away from the way he is get what he needs.
Now to apply this here, lets look at the type of people who are light siders, we are usually on the order side, so you can say that we are light/order Jedi, the true definition of what a Jedi should be, but we are human so chances are there are a bit of chaos thrown in. Then there are the Chaotic/Light Jedi, These are the people who will probably eventually cause trouble or even fall to the dark side, they usually start off wanting to do good but if they can't control the things around them they usually bring more and more drama. Another example of this would be an evangelic pastor or minister who is only in it for them money. Then we have the Order/Dark siders, these are people who have found their nitch and are generally good people, some of whom may come of as a bit strong but that is because they don't always take BS from people. And finally there is the Chaos/Dark siders, these are the type of people you have been talking about here, the people who generally want to do bad and those who have cause so much problems in the past. Even most people like this have a bit of control over themselves and would normally do really 'bad' things but this is where i classify those who kill as well, this is where i place anyone who does or would be willing to (without hesitation) be willing to hurt someone or something.

I know that was a bit lengthy but i had been wanting to post something like this for some time and you gave me the perfect timing. you know there are a wide variety of combinations of the above but that would be for a book or novel and probably for a person with a psychiatry degree.

I hope this helps with your conflict with their being 'Sith' here and anyone else who might have this same sort of problem.

MTFBWY

Anora^una_Ilorn, Greetings.

Well said and well met.

I have no conflict or problem with any dark-siders here. Not at all. I was merely expressing my curiosity about those who call themselves Sith, and recommending caution in dealing with the real dark Side of the force, which, as you are aware, is no game. I suspect I may be more than a few years older than most on this site and was simply attempting to pass on a bit of what I have learned. No offense was meant.

In retrospect,I know the dark side quite well; I used to be one of its servants. In my experience the Dark Side serves only itself and consumes those who embrace it. It destroyed much of my young life. It killed a few who were close to me. I was lucky and had the opportunity and the strength of will to walk away from darkness and I did.

I hear what you say though and indeed, it would be remiss of me to cast judgment upon anyone else here - which I certainly do not.

Be well.


Qorvas

For personal reasons (namely I cant type much at present) my point of view id this (and others here feel the same)

The Force simply is

There is a 'Light' and a 'Dark' side - not of the force - the force simply is - but of human nature - how one uses the force, utilises etc the force and or simply interacts with others or handles a given situation - this is what @Light' & 'Dark' is really about.

But that as an explanation is rather well, umm Black n White, as we all know in the real world most things hover somewhere in a shade of grey - sometimes it is necessary to do dark things for light ends - and everything depends on your own personal point of view - as well as the other person(s) view - a rather hot potato example of this could be the current 'war on terrorism'

Now we westerners may well think we are doing good, helping xyz countries achieve democracy and all that, as well as protecting our own borders from attack - yes, all very good causes - yet how many of us have sat down and thought about it from the perspective of the people who live in these eastern (mainly arab) nations? From their perspective, we are invaders, occupiers, dictators and many other not so good things.

Off this topic - many of us also acknowledge that as we are followers of the force and not StarWars wannabe characters (RPG players) that titles such as 'Sith' really dont apply - however - as you probably know (and Im sorry but I suspect you know this anyway) a small proportion left, and yes an even smaller number, were asked to leave for basically not keeping to the Jedi code/oath we all swear too here.

One cannot be true to two opposing codes/creeds - and trying to pull this off is not only lying to the members but more so to oneself.

We welcome anyone here, and yes we do have and welcome 'Sith' members - however we ask that any 'Sith' respect our Jedi members (this is a Jedi temple after all) and to simply use this site as guest members. We also have a good number of non jediism members ie neither jedi or sith so there is room for everyone

Whilst this differentiation between Jedi and sith seems rather hypocritical bearing in mind what I have said, it is necessary because not all share the idea that any follower of the force (outside of the starwars universe) is a Jedi

Hope this makes sense and MTFBWY - A

Well said Kana, i also wanted to say that despite all of our experience with the dark side, younglings must learn for themselves. Lectures and advice just don't always work. In fact they almost never work. we just have to trust that they don't lose themselves to far before they do destroy their lives or ruin friendships. Either way believe us we do know your concern Gorvas.

MTFBWY

Kana Seiko Haruki;

Good thoughts and good words. You are correct that the Force simply *is*, and that it is how it is embraced/used that determines the light/dark nature. Unfortunately, the Dark Side is, or seems...easier, and many 'younglings' as Anora mentioned, are drawn to that and all the teaching/lectures in the world will not stop this.

I liked your 'war on terror' analogy as well. Well done. I know what you mean. As a Canadian I see this from a very similar perspective as my American friends, yet I also try to see the other side.

On 9/11 I was in Edmonton, Alberta (western Canada). My daughter had been born 4 days earlier and I was staying in a hotel near the hospital waiting for my baby and my wife to be ready to come home. I came down to the hotel restaurant that morning to chaos: Every TV screen and radio was broadcasting the attack on NYC and even where I was, thousands of miles away, I could feel the fear and disgust radiating from everyone. Our airports were all locked down and there wasn't a rental vehicle/bus or anything anywhere to be found as our American friends rushed to get home.

Yet, I remember sitting next to an older gentleman at the bar. He was of Middle eastern descent, and he told me how horrified he was and how he feared for his family and friends 'back in the old country' when the united States retaliated. This man was simply a visitor, far from home who likely had absolutely nothing to do with any of the terror - yet he was affected in a very unfortunate way. I then saw the two sides in the story.

The Dark Side is easy, seductive. There are juicy promises.... Yet, as a wise man I know once said; it is easy and seductive from a certain point of view. If you change your point of view it doesn't look so attractive after all.

I think a big part of the journey for the Jedi - or the Jedi hopeful, is the change of perspective. It comes from within and it is not an easy path. For me, attachment and materialism were the hardest. Giving up all the useless 'toys' was a hard thing to do. Trying to see things from the perspective of others was also hard. For the most part, most of us have to literally unlearn waht we have been taught/raised in from a very early age.

Not an easy thing, but the result is so very worthwhile.

Thanks for sharing your goodly thoughts and words on this subject.

May the Force be with you.

Qorvas

Without darkness there is no light