Why are you here?

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07 Feb 2020 08:00 #349582 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Why are you here?
I really enjoyed that Alexandre brought up Nagel and "what it's like to be a bat"
Philosophy of mind is such a linguistically and conceptually tricky field that's criminally undervalued

IP Team Lead
TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ

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07 Feb 2020 08:55 - 07 Feb 2020 08:58 #349585 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Why are you here?
Perhaps I have some explaining and even (slight) apologizing to do here. I understand the intention of this thread, and I can respect it. I found that if this is to be seen as a place to learn, then "no discussion" (not "no discussion, please", mind you, just "no discussion") was not the best of ways to start. To follow it up with "I'm king here, obey or shut up!" upon my criticizing that part was also not exactly the tone of voice that makes the place look oozing with education, self improvement, or even well meaning. Granted, all the same I could have done better, had I not adopted a snarky or sarcastic tone myself to point this out. Perhaps some can forgive that hypocrisy, though more important to me is that they simply understand where I'm coming from.

Getting along, Zero Storm, is not a matter of the things we say to one another so much as it is of the things we feel towards one another as a result. It's a question of sportsmanship. I, for one, despite criticizing the attitude you expressed, bear no ill will toward you. If anything, I wish that you get through your troubles well, and come out stronger than you were when you met them.

You are frustrated with seeing the public areas of TOTJO dominated by the more debate-savvy folks like yours truly, and you feel that this costs the Temple some appeal it would elsewise have with those seeking something more akin to a sanctuary. That is a perfectly understandable concern, and you are far from the first to voice it.
Yet, if I may opine on this topic, I find that the distinction between a place of education and a place of debate is a difficult one to make, and often artificial, when insisted upon. I used to have a journal here, I completed the IP, seeing very few comments on my work at the time. I even submitted a few apprenticeship lessons to it, and I won't deny that I learned a few things from going through it all. However, that does in no way compare to the growth I experienced from interacting with the users more freely.
Reading and considering other perspectives and opinions taught me more about my own and about the subject matter than any musings I wrote myself on questions or materials presented to me without a back and forth dialogue. Be it by being shown what I had overlooked, being shown a different approach and compromizing or simply being engaged to go out and read more about the subject as I would compose my next reply, the most learning I had on TOTJO was learning with and from these "debates" some find so off-putting or even intimidating. They are not a competition, they are not a fight, not the way I take them, anyway, and I wish more would see them as a learning opportunity like I do. To me, they are a game and the entire fun in them consists of bonding with others and growing together - the best kind of growing, if I may make such a value judgement.
And that is something I learned here, indeed, more than anyplace else.

:)

Last edit: 07 Feb 2020 08:58 by Gisteron.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Rosalyn J, OB1Shinobi, Malicious

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07 Feb 2020 11:44 - 07 Feb 2020 12:06 #349588 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Why are you here?
At the risk of sounding patronizing, thank you, Gisteron.

TIL, or re-learned about that Art of Communicating by Thich Nhat Hanh. I was trying to find an easier way to explain the type of listening/ speaking I want to cultivate in myself and in my circles of influence. I'm going to be re-reading the book shortly.
Last edit: 07 Feb 2020 12:06 by Rosalyn J.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gisteron, OB1Shinobi, Erinis

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07 Feb 2020 16:59 #349591 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Why are you here?

Gisteron wrote: Perhaps I have some explaining and even (slight) apologizing to do here. I understand the intention of this thread, and I can respect it. I found that if this is to be seen as a place to learn, then "no discussion" (not "no discussion, please", mind you, just "no discussion") was not the best of ways to start. To follow it up with "I'm king here, obey or shut up!" upon my criticizing that part was also not exactly the tone of voice that makes the place look oozing with education, self improvement, or even well meaning. Granted, all the same I could have done better, had I not adopted a snarky or sarcastic tone myself to point this out. Perhaps some can forgive that hypocrisy, though more important to me is that they simply understand where I'm coming from.

Getting along, Zero Storm, is not a matter of the things we say to one another so much as it is of the things we feel towards one another as a result. It's a question of sportsmanship. I, for one, despite criticizing the attitude you expressed, bear no ill will toward you. If anything, I wish that you get through your troubles well, and come out stronger than you were when you met them.

You are frustrated with seeing the public areas of TOTJO dominated by the more debate-savvy folks like yours truly, and you feel that this costs the Temple some appeal it would elsewise have with those seeking something more akin to a sanctuary. That is a perfectly understandable concern, and you are far from the first to voice it.
Yet, if I may opine on this topic, I find that the distinction between a place of education and a place of debate is a difficult one to make, and often artificial, when insisted upon. I used to have a journal here, I completed the IP, seeing very few comments on my work at the time. I even submitted a few apprenticeship lessons to it, and I won't deny that I learned a few things from going through it all. However, that does in no way compare to the growth I experienced from interacting with the users more freely.
Reading and considering other perspectives and opinions taught me more about my own and about the subject matter than any musings I wrote myself on questions or materials presented to me without a back and forth dialogue. Be it by being shown what I had overlooked, being shown a different approach and compromizing or simply being engaged to go out and read more about the subject as I would compose my next reply, the most learning I had on TOTJO was learning with and from these "debates" some find so off-putting or even intimidating. They are not a competition, they are not a fight, not the way I take them, anyway, and I wish more would see them as a learning opportunity like I do. To me, they are a game and the entire fun in them consists of bonding with others and growing together - the best kind of growing, if I may make such a value judgement.
And that is something I learned here, indeed, more than anyplace else.

:)


- TOTJO member posts a topic
- Gistron's standard response:



XD I'm teasing!

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Gisteron, OB1Shinobi

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07 Feb 2020 22:51 #349602 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Why are you here?
One thing I've very much learned here, is that we are all very much the same, looking for the same "thing", even if we are each approaching it from different angles. The momentum with which we each come makes for a spectacular clash online. If taken at face value, it would seem we are doing nothing but bickering and trying to one-up each other. But looking closely, you can glance at a myriad of feelings and vulnerability behind the masks of arguments. I've come to appreciate all of you more, and I love you.

You are family to me.

The truth is something that burns. It burns off dead wood. And people don't like having the dead wood burnt off, often because they're 95 percent dead wood. - Jordan Peterson
The following user(s) said Thank You: Proteus, OB1Shinobi, Rex

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07 Feb 2020 23:36 #349608 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Why are you here?
Questions don't have emotion, unless it's deliberatly added to them. I like to ask and explore, but do get frustrated when people get defensive or dismissive of enquiry, and when emotions start dribbling into conversations... but I'm a furious curious bugger, so keep asking. I also have, as a result, an opinion about everything! Luckily those two things means I'm curious if my opinion can improve...

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Rex

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