Is The Order A Cult?

So got banned because she said her mom was mother nature and she didnt know how to put the address she has in an application?

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

Cult? I wonder...

To a dark place this conversation is going . Fear , fear of having ones account deleted for thinking differently than the rest . Fear leads to anger , anger leads to hate , and hate leads to the dark side . The dark side is emotional imbalance , having dark thoughts and emotions . We must keep ourselves balanced not only emotionally and physically but spiritually . A sound mind leads to a sound body and a sound soul .

Suppose that the order is a cult. Does that change the things you learn here through the IP, library, and the conversations you have had? Are they suddenly less true or false because they were learned in a cult? I don't see any real malice in TOTJO's activity. Haven't encouraged people to abandon their families or anything like that. If it is a cult and is not malicious, is there anything wrong with that?

Seems like a slippery surface situation.

After not too long of someone with controversial claims being around, one portion of the temple will have complained about "letting people like that run amok around the temple" and starting drama toward them, potentially setting them off in one way or another.

On the other hand, turning them away would set off other people who only see the narrative of scandal to fill in/replacing missing or misunderstood information.

These situations are pretty difficult to navigate, and someone in a critical position tends to have to choose a (hopefully) lesser of two evils. I don't envy you Br John. And I hope more of our community can begin approaching these situations more objectively to consider all sides and options.

Fyxe wrote: So

Warning: Spoiler!

dakini

got banned because she said her mom was mother nature and she didnt know how to put the address she has in an application?

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

Cult? I wonder...

How Dare You!

I did not quote all her spew of lunatic posts. I did not tell every single detail of the situation. I'm protecting someone's privacy. I paraphrased it into a couple of sentences. You put your goddammed ass on the line when somebody gets fucked up as a result of being here, you make the hard decisions, then we can judge you. She could have put her address into the comment section or PM'd it or whatever. She could have emailed it. She could have asked to speak to me on the phone. I do that. She refused every reasonable request and doubled down with the batshit bullshit. We had no way to verify her identity and that she was not a mentally ill fifteen-year-old. I still do not know who she is.

Go through this forum. It goes back to 2007. People have cursed me, ridiculed me, vilified me, and yes, some have even criticized me. They're still here. You're still here

Malicious wrote: To a dark place this conversation is going . Fear , fear of having ones account deleted for thinking differently than the rest . Fear leads to anger , anger leads to hate , and hate leads to the dark side . The dark side is emotional imbalance , having dark thoughts and emotions . We must keep ourselves balanced not only emotionally and physically but spiritually . A sound mind leads to a sound body and a sound soul .

Kindly do not put words in my mouth or ascribe motives to my actions. I try to limit myself to one good cussin' a day and what's his name just got one so ... when are you going to explain why a wall across the border of my state, Texas, and Mexico is such a good idea?

B. Kliban

To be fair, I think we generally ascribe a bit more importance to what a councilor says than a newcomer.

If any of what they said had any merits, I think those points ought to be discussed (I don't they they hold water btw). Ignoring some people crying wolf looks better than reacting to them.

I don't envy your position Br John. Have fun having everyone who's likely invested less in this than you (myself included) critiquing you.

christianity was a cult. it was controversial.
as to that whole concept - jedi as a cult, why? because we are a "temple?"
pretty weird to me, no money is asked - though you retain the right to give if you can and desire to do so. you cant even ask to be a member for 7 days, never mind the actual jedi training.
i actually blasted the whole hero thing as my first initiate post, which nobody can affect, so as to preserve my freedom to choose.
this is hardly anywhere near a cult.
in the interest of not being negative, i will refuse to say more on this silly topic.

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

You're assuming the reasons for your ban will have anything to do with your ideas, or at least trying to paint that connection in the mind of the audience.

I have no doubt that many people see themselves as martyrs. The thing about being a martyr is, it stops being relevant the moment you are no longer around to praise yourself if there is no one else around to keep your name day holy.

I, for one, as this water-cooler chat of inane speculation unfolds, wonder why Br. John started this thread to begin with?

I don't wonder very hard, mind you, as cleaning my toenails probably has a more functional outcome than any of TotJO's jaunts into internal politicking.....

it is apparent that you wondered enough to post here instead of cleaning your toenails.
id not worry about a ban. your calipers however, may need to be calibrated.

Alligations like that should be brought out in a wide-open space with the sun shining. Any truth to them will hopefully come out, maybe management discovers something it was not seeing about itself, and the mold and mildew of it generally wither in the light. That's why I moved it to the forum

That is indeed apparent, you clever clogs! (two gold stars I suppose, you'll want one for the calipers as well)

In fact, I post here often. Did you hope to shame me by pointing out I'm a relatively dedicated participant and supporter of TotJO and Jediism?

I actually like this community and what (as far as I know) it stands for.

If it's of any interest to anyone (it shouldn't be) if I was anywhere near the helm of this ship, many members would be banned with much less justification - but I'm a bit less "everyone is valid" and more "people who treat this place like an extension of 4chan or reddit should stick to sandpits more suitable to their behaviour" than the standing leadership.

Perhaps I'm a bad Jedi? Who knows. I certainly have not been banned, for my ideas or my behaviour, and there's probably at least a few people who think I should have been - so it can't be that bad of a place.

Alligations like that should be brought out in a wide-open space with the sun shining. Any truth to them will hopefully come out, maybe management discovers something it was not seeing about itself, and the mold and mildew of it generally wither in the light. That's why I moved it to the forum

That's possible.

It's also possible that garbage should be thrown out with the trash, otherwise you run the risk of attracting vermin.

I have no idea the level of emotion is behind all this, but I've tried to stay out of all the various "strong positions" that have come up over the last few years, regardless of what bans or ragequits and whatnot have come of them. Usually, I suspect, to no long-term benefit of anyone.

I do trust that the overall management of TotJO are responsible adults and usually make decisions, if not necessarily the same ones I would make, can be justified in some context or another.

So to be fair, I personally know of three different accounts related to this one person in question which is a clear violation of the TOS. Further more, the individual was asked by myself about this violation and the answer was -not understandable and very shady. The Temple is always under scrutiny and attack, ive got a list of insults and attacks that would blow your mind. This is rarely about what you can see but often what most cant.

Kind of getting back to the theme addressed in the topic of this thread, and away from discussions of individuals:

There are some characteristics of cults that sociologists commonly ascribe to them. Some of them include:

* Founded and led by a very charismatic individual

* Extremely controlling of the daily habits of members, including defining things like the types of clothing to wear, the types of music or
media to attend to, what to eat, and so on.

* Implicit or explicit encouragement to break off relations with family members and old friends.

* Jargon shared in common only among the membership - e.g., "off-world", "Thetans", or commonly-used words that are given a special meaning

* Significant demands upon the time and energy of members

I don't see any of those things at the Temple. Jargon, maybe ... though references to the Force and such are pretty much in the popular domain.

I do not think TOTJO is a cult, based on anything close to a scientific definition. There are those though who define a cult as "any group whose beliefs are different than mine", and there'll be no convincing people like that.
.

Br. John wrote:
How Dare You!

How dare I?
How dare I what... ask for more information? from the leader of this board? on a mysterious disappearance of a friend of mine?

I respect all the work you put in but man this seems strange that I get and inscensed response from a simple inquiry. I didnt know what was going on and all these threads kept poppong up and dissapearing and people started dissapearing and all this other stuff.. how are we suppposed to know whats going on if you guys dont convey information? are conspiracies and holding informaiton cult like behaviour? you asked this question, not me. Im just letting you know that without hte information people wonder what you are and what you are up to.

Fyxe wrote:

Br. John wrote:
How Dare You!

How dare I?
How dare I what... ask for more information? from the leader of this board? on a mysterious disappearance of a friend of mine?

I respect all the work you put in but man this seems strange that I get and inscensed response from a simple inquiry. I didnt know what was going on and all these threads kept poppong up and dissapearing and people started dissapearing and all this other stuff.. how are we suppposed to know whats going on if you guys dont convey information? are conspiracies and holding informaiton cult like behaviour? you asked this question, not me. Im just letting you know that without hte information people wonder what you are and what you are up to.

Well sheet. I'm sorry. I need new computer glasses. I misread your post as a statement instead of as a question. Big difference.

I apologize for that

I respect all the work you put in but man this seems strange that I get and inscensed response from a simple inquiry. I didnt know what was going on and all these threads kept poppong up and dissapearing and people started dissapearing and all this other stuff.. how are we suppposed to know whats going on if you guys dont convey information? are conspiracies and holding informaiton cult like behaviour? you asked this question, not me. Im just letting you know that without hte information people wonder what you are and what you are up to.

I too enjoy sailing.

What's that thing called? When the path you're on is heading into the wind so you make a directional change to regain the best possible speed in as close a direction to where you want to go?

It's hard to do smoothly. I've seen a few head injuries from the boom moving a little faster than people expect....

Really, the best thing about sailing, as opposing to, say, motocross racing, is that the track you leave from your old path....it disappears. a few moments after you start going in a new direction, it's more or less impossible to see where you used to be....

The definition of any object is dependent on one's perspective.

If a particular group values something and holds it up as the object of religious veneration and yet is deemed over-controlling, sinister, foul, or malicious in nature, then yes, one may define it as a cult.
However, those within the group may not see it that way.
Not to mention, it depends on what one perceives as "good" or "bad".

Now, if the requirements of membership in the said group include adherence to a specific mindset or a certain amount of emotional control, then I would say if you do not like it, do not participate in said group.

HOWEVER, in an organization such as our own, as to what level of control higher-ranking members have over lower-rankings members is not strictly determined (from what I have seen, we aren't oligarchical in nature).

I have always thought of us as open-minded, but it has been obvious as of late, some higher-ranking members may have been overstepping their boundaries.

We are a group of free-thinkers and open-minded individuals, yes, we do have a specific doctrine, but there is room to maneuver within that doctrine.

The obvious solution to this problem is that the member/s with the highest authority need to establish SPECIFIC boundaries for what can and cannot be controlled.

Obviously we must allow room for free thought, and yet chastise those who are unnecessarily histrionic and combative (troublemakers, trolls, etc).
However, beyond that, you must not inhibit an individual's RIGHT to free expression and inquiry, however much you may disapprove of their perspective.

There is a clear separation between opinion and fact, and it is a fact that any member, no matter how high your rank may be, does not have the right to attempt to control others just because you disagree (unless, as I already said, they are deliberately making trouble).

Beyond this issue, however, I would say we are a pretty solid group.
AND CERTAINLY NOT A CULT.
(but don't drink the Kool-Aid)

MEESA HAVE SPAKE