Is The Order A Cult?

Kobos commented on this post about 19 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth Geni Jeuls
1 day ago Hi
Okay what exactly makes you think this is a cult? Just curious.. has something happened
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Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
I've been studying cults for years. This place capitalises on Emotional, Informational, and Behavioural control.

Emotional control: Threatening people with being removed. This place has, many times, threatened people with bans, excommunication, or removal of knighthoods. It has been recorded that a current sitting councillor threatened another, at the time, sitting councillor to have their house raided and their kid taken away simply for taking a stand against injustices. They try to scare you or they try to make you think this place is your home. This is a website. Not a home. Its not a church, its not a school. There have been no new knights in a year. Their training is failing. And those that call themselves grandmasters are self assigned but yet say people must live up to their standards. This is abusive emotional control.

Informational Control: As we've seen of late, people have been removed, threads removed, comments removed. Why? Because they ask questions or make points they don't like. They hide things behind walls. They excommunicate long standing members without making any public notice, as they should. They release documents saying they're going to change things, but they don't. Its all smoke and mirrors. Its also been documented that current sitting councillors have coordinated with known trolls to coordinate trolling strikes in order to cause drama so they could then ban people for taking a stand against these trolls. Where is my proof of this? Hidden away because they can't have it getting out. They punish those that speak about it. Why do you think there are no active knights these days outside of council?

Finally, Behavioural control: They clear cut black and white 'acceptable' behaviour. Paired with the culture of fear they've cultivated around 'getting banned' (fun fact, the wider jedi community is seeing this place for what it is, and it is losing face quickly.). They vilify those that have done nothing wrong other than take a stand against trolls and injustices and even illegal actions taken by councillors, but congratulate and even memorialise trolls that were banned by Knights vote.

Thats why. This is after YEARS of watching this place, and years more of studying cults. This place has been a fascinating case study, but a disturbing one nonetheless.
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1 day ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
They are knights outside of council that are active.
And there are members that train here from other Jedi communities..
Where are you getting your info?
Nowhere does it say you have to live up to anyones standard.. I dont and they havent banned me
Proteous, Adder, Karn are active and we have some new knights just waiting on council

Your words make me uneasy and confused a lot

Do you have proof of what your saying?
Who are you really
Because I see this as my homebase and I have been here 6 years so would like to understand for myself
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1 day ago
Erinis
Erinis
There is some true about it. I miss Arisaig, his case of "excomunication" is very strange.
But I don´t see anything bad about rules, and those who break them, well then they have to accept consequences.
As Elizabeth said, there aren´t proofs, thus those which could be possible check objectively.
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1 day ago
Lumella
Lumella
Some people should start writing fiction and some need not to act so oblivious
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1 day ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
and some people need to stop mocking those pointing out proven facts just because you dont like hearing it. Ever join any jedi groups outside of here? may help.
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1 day ago
Lumella
Lumella
Which have you joined Geni? And finished any of their programs , and i dont mean the grey and dark ones , no i mean the real steady Jedi programs that are online? You have all this knowledge about this place that has no meaning outside of these walls and have no impact whatsoever on you being a Jedi in real life. If people like to live the Totjo Jedi dream or nightmare who are we to confuse them with knowledge that can neiter be proved nor rejected?
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1 day ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
you wanna rephrase that entire last sentence? Literally makes no sense.

Im part of the IJF, the FA light aspect. Trained? not at all. Youve obviously missed my point of being here. I study cult formation. Ive been looking into Jediism as a case study. This place is the cult. Jediism. in itself is not a cult. this place, however, engages in dangerous cultlike practises.
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1 day ago
Erinis
Erinis
totjo is a cult, really? Let´s look at the definition:
Cambridge dictionary; cult - is religious group, often living together, whose beliefs are considered extreme or strange by many people.

Now, what exactly is strange or unsusuall on our belief system? Maybe you are the first person who would see it this way, or want to see.
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1 day ago
Lumella
Lumella
For Geni ...Let me see if i can make it more simple for you , people look for a website where they can live the Jedi dream , i do not want to lessen their experience of such with wild aligations that i cannot prove nor denie. If you are really a International Federation Jedi , you making these accusations even makes less sense seeing that there are a few other Federation Jedi here that i never heard on the subject , which then makes me believe you have a personal grudge against this place. Dont get me wrong , i am the first to call out so called Jedi on their bs but i do hope i spread a little more light than darkness on their path. Nobody is going to leave Totjo because you are convinced this is a cult.
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1 day ago
Lumella
Lumella
For Erinis , please read Freedom of mind by Steven Hassan , it will give you a much broader and well informed view on what a cult is
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1 day ago
Erinis
Erinis
What?? lol > Nobody is going to leave Totjo because you are convinced this is a cult < I never said that. (that was sarcasm, because I wrote question mark), also I am not sure if you read whole my comment. And also don´t know where you get, that I have personal grudge against totjo, ask anyone you want they will convince you about contrary.
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1 day ago
Lumella
Lumella
lol i was not talking to you in the former comment , the last one was meant for you , to read the book Freedom of the mind i am sorry if it was not clear who i was adressing
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1 day ago
Erinis
Erinis
sorry my mistake ((: thank you for recommendation!
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1
23 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
So being a seasoned Jeddist - why - this is my concern - why would other people come into a Temple not their own and blame and cause strife intent and even encourage others to NOT be here? That’s kinna bad form for me - I would never walk into the FA and repeat anything similar to the claims of cult and malice. I would never ask any one to do the same. I think that’s a big difference that’s upsetting - we as a whole don’t really fight and argue. I encourage others to join other sites. I’m on almost as many as there are labels for Jedi. I talk to every one as often as I can. Maybe it’s time to ban togeather and talk about this. Why do we go over to other sites and cause dramma - hmmmm something to think about. Why is that ok?
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23 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
the term is 'band together'. Or are you so used to calling for bans?
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23 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
And I'm not 'causing drama'. I'm stating facts because I WAS ASKED. You don't like facts, 'pastor'?
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23 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
I don’t argue- I simply encourage. I share, I don’t tear down and I try. I like facts. Pastor of the Jedi Order is my title as well as my joy so - feel free to use it as fitting and not in quotes. I could fact you as well as you could fact me and where does that leave us... with a bunch of facts still going back and forth - not a place I choose to be - I choose not to go back n forth - waste of time for me- just me . Intention is often the color of our personal saber. Any place can be called anything by anyone - doesn't make it so. Take some time to think about why your here - that’s rhetorical. So far - according to facts .. I can say many things... but they are just my own opinion... many people say this place is a cult - that’s ok too. Many people don’t like us - that’s ok too- many people want to see us fail - that’s ok too. Facts are pretty clear on to which glow together and which are opposing. I wonder what would happen if I called Another site in their page a cult? I wouldn’t. I can’t. So I guess we shall see what can be and what is ...
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23 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
fine then. Keep those fingers in your ears. It matches your wardrobe anyway.
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23 hours ago
Erinis
Erinis
Carlos isn´t closed to your opinions, and what you said are also just opinions not facts.
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23 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
sure. yup. for sure. mhmm. absolutely.
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23 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
Not sure why you felt the need to diss me like that but that’s ok. May the Force we seek serve and share - continue to be with you.
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22 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
*Temple - this very conversation has sparked me to reach out to other sites and leaders and start a dialogue on this very topic. I am thankful for what today has brought.
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22 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
Mahalo Temple
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22 hours ago
Br. John
Br. John
Hello Ms. Geni Jeuls. Please correct me if it's Mr. or something else. This is too good to be stuck in this awkward community comment thing. I'd be delighted to have it as a topic in the forum. You're welcome to make the topic and present your statement. Add to it if you like and please reference any evidence. This will likly be a highly productive discussion / debate as long as we avoid ad hominem attacks and the like.

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!

Standard English translation

Oh, would some Power give us the gift
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress and gait would leave us,
And even devotion!

by Robert Burns
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22 hours ago
Br. John
Br. John
Lumella, is it this book? https://amzn.to/3avKhCi Here is the authors site https://freedomofmind.com/
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21 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
Well this seems to of escalates quickly
I would be intrested in seeing what you have written for your case study.
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21 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
Oh and any proof or indeed evidence of any kind.
Do you join other Jedi based websites just to study or do you intetact and maybe learn from the community.
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21 hours ago
Lumella
Lumella
Hi Br John , yes that is indeed the book that i recommend , i think its good for everyone to read but especially if people feel they might be in a cult which Geni is saying this is , i find it quite the opposite really , people downright tell people to bugger off when they dont like it here hahaha
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21 hours ago
Alethea Thompson
Alethea Thompson
I would like to alleviate any concerns here: The thoughts and opinions of this individual are their own, neither IJF nor FA stand in judgement that ToTJO is a cult.
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20 hours ago
Kobos
Kobos
I am going to back up Elizabeth on this, case study and thread?
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20 hours ago
Lumella
Lumella
I would advice a nice conversation with said member if i were you Alathea Thompson , i assume you know the leaders of said communities , its not very chique to bash other orders when you are a visitor somewhere , its like a Jew entering a christian church yelling they are a cult and jesus is a jerk ...
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20 hours ago
Br. John
Br. John
I hope Geni Jeuls will start a thread in the forum. Where we are now is tedious (to me anyway) for a good discussion. I'd like to do my best to reveal some confidential information without exposing the individuals. The reasons why there have been expulsions and deletions. I'm going to do so. Either in a thread she initiates or in one I'll initiate. I hope Geni Jeuls will do us the courtesy of giving her real name. Everyone knows who I am and where I live. It's a matter of public record by law. I'll be AFK for awhile. I'll be here later today though and continue on the subject.
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20 hours ago
Alethea Thompson
Alethea Thompson
Lumella, I don't just know the leaders of those orders, I'm one of them- which is why I can speak on their behalf. I'm the current Director of Education for both. And I'm at a loss here. I think many of you probably know that I'm well connected with the community, but in this I don't even know who Geni is. Geni has exactly 4 comments and no posts to IJF. Two of which are meme reactions, and the other two are in the same thread asking what "crabs in a basket" is and then whether or not the person meant in regards to the community or the world at large. On FA, I can't find a user under this name either. It's pretty rare for me to not have at least a theory on who someone is or isn't in the community- especially when they claim to have been around for a good long time. The one theory I had, went right out the window when I realized the FB account Geni has, has been active since 2012.
I understand frusterations that this kind of bickering might be going on, but I encourage cooler heads to do exactly what was done by two leaders of this community- Reach out to someone that can speak on an order's behalf. If you don't know who they are yourself, you can come to me directly and ask for a line of communication to nearly any order in the community and I'm 99% of the time going to have access to a leader within said order.
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20 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
This very idea is in our very own IP

Essay 8: Cult, the Word

The word 'cult' gets thrown around a lot in a negative light.

What does the word actually mean?

Does Jediism, in your view, fit into the definition of ‘cult’? If so by how much?

It’s one of those things we encourage each of us to do for ourself - as humans and as modern day Jeddist - choose your definitions for yourself - I can’t ever tell any one their anything is a cult - not my cup of tea. I won’t ever. My hope is every chance we get we share -
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20 hours ago
Carlos.Martinez3
Carlos.Martinez3
And I may take ya up on that Alethea and if Ya need me I’m available for the same.
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20 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
I haven't heard anyone in the larger community talk about Totjo as a cult
And the person I original thought this was I am pretty sure now it isn't
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20 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
So wait... you have an entire lesson that asks if this place is, in ones opinion, a cult, but calling it one is a controversial subject?
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19 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
Do you all demand entire threads from people who actually say 'yes, this is a cult' in this lesson?
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19 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
I was looking back at when I did the essay on the word cult

And honestly you did a little more than just say yes
But I originally wished to understand why you thought this
Some of the points you raised you seem to accuse then offer nothing to back up your accusations

And when were you at FA I trained there for a while myself and couldn't recall you.. Did you use a different name
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19 hours ago
Geni Jeuls
Geni Jeuls
never said I trained, in fact openly said never did train, nor did I represent any of the groups. I actively observed. As I said, was learning and watching to see if, potentially, they were budding cults. I really don't see how that got confused?
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19 hours ago
elizabeth
elizabeth
No you didn't you said you were part of FA light aspect... And you don't have to train to be there.
That wasn't really confused on my part I assumed you were a member as you said about observing light aspect so if you weren't that's my bad
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19 hours ago
Kobos
Kobos
So then in your opinion this place fits as a cult. In fact you have written up a case study. I am very intrigued by this and would love to give it a read, hence a thread suggestion. Because when you write a case study of something determining something about something, you normally have expertise in a given area. May I ask (would rather ask in threads), what expertise do you possess that allows you to be a judge of cultist behavior, any credentials (degrees, certificates, ordinations ect.). Again taking this conversation to a thread would be much more interesting and beneficial to all involved.
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19 hours ago
Lumella
Lumella
So there has been a misunderstanding concerning your training Geni , i would still love to see your research , cults interest me if you dont want to publish publicly which i understand you can send it to lumelladeventer@gmail.com
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19 hours ago
Kobos
Kobos
I want to clarify, I like Lumella have an interest in cults. I also enjoy a conversation on true group think and what it leads too. Please, PM me if you don't want it public I could understand that.
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19 hours ago

Emotional control: Threatening people with being removed. This place has, many times, threatened people with bans, excommunication, or removal of knighthoods. It has been recorded that a current sitting councillor threatened another, at the time, sitting councillor to have their house raided and their kid taken away simply for taking a stand against injustices. They try to scare you or they try to make you think this place is your home. This is a website. Not a home. Its not a church, its not a school. There have been no new knights in a year. Their training is failing. And those that call themselves grandmasters are self assigned but yet say people must live up to their standards. This is abusive emotional control.

 

---

I dont know about some of the accusations made here,
What I do know is that people have been banned, knights have been excommunicated but then reinstated.
So there is some truth there.
The members here have never tried to scare me, or forced me to believe this is my home. Quite simply I class this as my spiritual home because it's here I first experienced a kind of awakening. I was exposed to others storys which in my daily I would never of come to understand or empathise with. Here I learned to put into words and build a deep understanding of what for years I had felt but never been any to vocalise. The energy, the force, Gods spirit whatever we choose to call it.
The training isn't failing, people have lives, busy ones and sometimes events happen and many leave. But, at the same time many stay and I think if the training, which once you are an apprentice is mainly self based..
SELF BASED helps then its a win, wether or not that person becomes a knight.
Don't get me wrong on occasions I have felt that what I choose to learn is not approved by the council. But they have never threatened me, emotional or otherwise if I continued down that road. I was told their opinion, didn't agree with what they said and continued my studies anyway.
This IS a website, but we choose to use it, at least I do as a place of learning, spiritual and emotional growth.
MY CHOICE

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Informational Control: As we've seen of late, people have been removed, threads removed, comments removed. Why? Because they ask questions or make points they don't like. They hide things behind walls. They excommunicate long standing members without making any public notice, as they should. They release documents saying they're going to change things, but they don't. Its all smoke and mirrors. Its also been documented that current sitting councillors have coordinated with known trolls to coordinate trolling strikes in order to cause drama so they could then ban people for taking a stand against these trolls. Where is my proof of this? Hidden away because they can't have it getting out. They punish those that speak about it. Why do you think there are no active knights these days outside of council?

---

This is something I do agree with in parts but its also something people have tried working on to give clarity, sure its not perfect, where is?
I do think when someone is removed for whatever reason we could be informed and if threads or comments vanish then the person involved could be told.
The co-ordinating with trolls troubled me, which is why I initially asked for proof.
Unfortunately none so far has been given
There are active knights here, maybe not as vocal as they once were but they are here.

---

Finally, Behavioural control: They clear cut black and white 'acceptable' behaviour. Paired with the culture of fear they've cultivated around 'getting banned' (fun fact, the wider jedi community is seeing this place for what it is, and it is losing face quickly.). They vilify those that have done nothing wrong other than take a stand against trolls and injustices and even illegal actions taken by councillors, but congratulate and even memorialise trolls that were banned by Knights vote.

---

I dont think there is a clear cut black and white 'acceptable' behaviour.
Some of the things I have done and said in the last six years, the anger, swearing, getting drunk and attacking people, I have been called a troll many times by other members, a Sith by others..
Here I still am, a little older and wiser but I have never been banned. Or threatened.

I have trained on other sites and your fun fact doesn't hold any water in my eyes. The wider community may have misgivens about some actions here but I would think they would discuss with council rather than run at the mouth about us.

Some of the events that have happened here I dont always agree with. I don't blindly follow or trust, but I do respect that there may be things I know nothing about because I am not a Knight.
If we can't have some trust in our fellow Jedi then why are we here?

Again I wanted proof about councillor's memorialising trolls which again I havent got from you.
If that was truth then I think instead of attempting to cause problem's you should give us proof of these accusations so we can then clearly make our choice wisely of what to do, well informed and understanding clearly from not just your perspective but the council's too.
They have a right to see the evidence and refute or agree dont you think?

Emotional control by individuals is not the same as a system of emotional control.

Plenty of individuals use emotional control to win arguments or drive agendas (at home, in the workplace, in national legislation....)

I'm not sure it is "built into" TotJO, so it occurring here and there is not necessarily an indication of much on behalf of the organisation as it is a foible of some people....

I'm no expert, but I am involved with a cult, a proper one, with a whole complex series of controls and manipulation and real threats if you don't conform to, and resell the approved sermons.

It is very different to here. So if TotJO was hoping to be a cult, it's still just gigging around the 'burbs and isn't even close to be picked up to go pro....

The actual definition of cult - the people actually use - which differs from people to person can apply to anything and anyone. The use of the word Cult to me often is parallel to a good “well I know you are but what am I.” That’s just me. Most of the time when I’ve been told the Temple is a Cult- it’s from some one or some where that is upset and creates the same type of idea here only now - they are the ones in charge and have the responsibility of maintain their own Order. This - to me is never wrong. It can’t be. Not to me ever. Yet, when it happens it’s often met with upset and anger and rarely encouragement. In my own life it’s my fault. I find with the Force - For every one who hates one will love - for every one who wins one can loose as well.
Is this place a cult- by other people’s definitions - prolly - but then by that definition - so are the Boys scouts or any pick up basket ball game played more than once. So to me - claiming an organization is a cult in 2020 is - for me - as equal as a diss or a insult and is often done intentionally.
Real life -
I’ve used the word cult as a good word and a bad word. I’ve used it to tear down - I’ll pass on using it to hurt others. My choice

Well this kinda got brought up unintentionally in a way by me asking about a forum post I made that vanished . I'm sorry if I Disturbed the peace or poured gas on the fire . But eventually this topic would arise regardless of who said what . I don't think the temple is a cult but I do believe that some peoples methods are a bit different . Now as for having ones account deleted yes that is in a way emotional control but not in a cult sense . And the reason why some ( original people ) I say this in parentheses because it is meant in a way people that was on here for years but decided to quit . These people I don't know personally or don't know the actual reason why they left but eventually people move on with there life's . We all wasn't born Jedi we move from one religion to another or from no religion to this one well in the same sense that could be why those ( original people ) left they wanted to experience a new religion . Or they decided they learned all they can and then just be a Jedi every day without this temple . There are a lot of possible reasons and I chose to believe that being forced out isn't one of the larger reasons . Now for peoples account being deleted , personally I think this should be done as a last resort and by the full council vote and the knights approval . By last resort I mean not when someone has different views or beliefs ( even the odd ones ) but when someone Is causing a lot of trouble and trolling everyone . I have only been on here about 5 months and I have only seen a case or two where the person getting banned truly deserved it . But who am I to say this , I am not a knight or anyone with influence but I do know when someone is being miss treated for the wrong reason . Again I apologise for stirring the pot .

Well I shall ask if no one else.

What happened to ?

Br. John
I hope Geni Jeuls will start a thread in the forum. Where we are now is tedious (to me anyway) for a good discussion. I'd like to do my best to reveal some confidential information without exposing the individuals. The reasons why there have been expulsions and deletions. I'm going to do so.

Maybe you will get your answer Fyxe when Br.John explains as he says here

Wow. I had no idea this kind of controversy had been simmering here. I find it hard to tell what's what, without firsthand knowledge.

Fyxe wrote: Well I shall ask if no one else.

What happened to

Warning: Spoiler!

Dakani

?

Since chose to publish my private communication to her it's no longer private or confidential. I'll tell you something about myself. I see a psychiatrist and a talk therapist. I have issues with Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, and OCD. I'm not a psychiatrist but I've played one in a movie (really, the clip is posted at the end of this post). I've been around plenty of people with mental issues in groups, from working with churches and other ways.

She submitted an incomplete member application. We had asked for it to be completed but that never happened. When she began posting the delusional things about really being Princess Moonbeam and her mother being Mother Nature (or whatever it was, something like that) I PM'd her. You know, a Private Message.

I asked her either to please post that she was joking or submit an application that we would verify with a background and age check. If she turned out to be underage I'd need to contact her parents or guardians. There is a lot of responsibility involved here. In my opinion, this was a potentially dangerous, very dangerous situation. Some delusional people are harmless. Some are a danger to others, and some to others and themselves. Their bubble gets burst in the right way at the wrong time and there's a suicide.

We had a member here (a Master) commit suicide about ten years ago so it's not only a theory.

I can tell you all that she refused to submit a complete application. I, being forced to assume she's a minor and mentally ill, took the safest recommended course of action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpz43cT7Duo

TOTJO has been controversial the entire time i have been here.

So got banned because she said her mom was mother nature and she didnt know how to put the address she has in an application?

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

Cult? I wonder...

To a dark place this conversation is going . Fear , fear of having ones account deleted for thinking differently than the rest . Fear leads to anger , anger leads to hate , and hate leads to the dark side . The dark side is emotional imbalance , having dark thoughts and emotions . We must keep ourselves balanced not only emotionally and physically but spiritually . A sound mind leads to a sound body and a sound soul .

Suppose that the order is a cult. Does that change the things you learn here through the IP, library, and the conversations you have had? Are they suddenly less true or false because they were learned in a cult? I don't see any real malice in TOTJO's activity. Haven't encouraged people to abandon their families or anything like that. If it is a cult and is not malicious, is there anything wrong with that?

Seems like a slippery surface situation.

After not too long of someone with controversial claims being around, one portion of the temple will have complained about "letting people like that run amok around the temple" and starting drama toward them, potentially setting them off in one way or another.

On the other hand, turning them away would set off other people who only see the narrative of scandal to fill in/replacing missing or misunderstood information.

These situations are pretty difficult to navigate, and someone in a critical position tends to have to choose a (hopefully) lesser of two evils. I don't envy you Br John. And I hope more of our community can begin approaching these situations more objectively to consider all sides and options.

Fyxe wrote: So

Warning: Spoiler!

dakini

got banned because she said her mom was mother nature and she didnt know how to put the address she has in an application?

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

Cult? I wonder...

How Dare You!

I did not quote all her spew of lunatic posts. I did not tell every single detail of the situation. I'm protecting someone's privacy. I paraphrased it into a couple of sentences. You put your goddammed ass on the line when somebody gets fucked up as a result of being here, you make the hard decisions, then we can judge you. She could have put her address into the comment section or PM'd it or whatever. She could have emailed it. She could have asked to speak to me on the phone. I do that. She refused every reasonable request and doubled down with the batshit bullshit. We had no way to verify her identity and that she was not a mentally ill fifteen-year-old. I still do not know who she is.

Go through this forum. It goes back to 2007. People have cursed me, ridiculed me, vilified me, and yes, some have even criticized me. They're still here. You're still here

Malicious wrote: To a dark place this conversation is going . Fear , fear of having ones account deleted for thinking differently than the rest . Fear leads to anger , anger leads to hate , and hate leads to the dark side . The dark side is emotional imbalance , having dark thoughts and emotions . We must keep ourselves balanced not only emotionally and physically but spiritually . A sound mind leads to a sound body and a sound soul .

Kindly do not put words in my mouth or ascribe motives to my actions. I try to limit myself to one good cussin' a day and what's his name just got one so ... when are you going to explain why a wall across the border of my state, Texas, and Mexico is such a good idea?

B. Kliban

To be fair, I think we generally ascribe a bit more importance to what a councilor says than a newcomer.

If any of what they said had any merits, I think those points ought to be discussed (I don't they they hold water btw). Ignoring some people crying wolf looks better than reacting to them.

I don't envy your position Br John. Have fun having everyone who's likely invested less in this than you (myself included) critiquing you.

christianity was a cult. it was controversial.
as to that whole concept - jedi as a cult, why? because we are a "temple?"
pretty weird to me, no money is asked - though you retain the right to give if you can and desire to do so. you cant even ask to be a member for 7 days, never mind the actual jedi training.
i actually blasted the whole hero thing as my first initiate post, which nobody can affect, so as to preserve my freedom to choose.
this is hardly anywhere near a cult.
in the interest of not being negative, i will refuse to say more on this silly topic.

How long before I'm banned for my ideas that are different?

You're assuming the reasons for your ban will have anything to do with your ideas, or at least trying to paint that connection in the mind of the audience.

I have no doubt that many people see themselves as martyrs. The thing about being a martyr is, it stops being relevant the moment you are no longer around to praise yourself if there is no one else around to keep your name day holy.

I, for one, as this water-cooler chat of inane speculation unfolds, wonder why Br. John started this thread to begin with?

I don't wonder very hard, mind you, as cleaning my toenails probably has a more functional outcome than any of TotJO's jaunts into internal politicking.....