Why I stopped and why I probably will not continue

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15 Jan 2020 07:50 #348416 by ghosty
perhaps as you learn, you find out it was not worth pursuing?
thats a bundle there, no hidden fees no contracts.
i could type at length, and im happy that i can, and that somebody out there reads it. thank you.
im just not sure that my voice matters here.
i dont mean as in, my vote or what not doesnt count....i mean, i am really questioning my "fit."
it may be best for all that i just leave.
i hope my questions have provoked thought. that was their intent.
i dont know the answers, but i do have thoughts and solutions.
and that is what i see as lacking at this temple.
lots of pokes, but no solutions.
tip:
do not tear down without an idea of how to build...
its like nobody understands the difference between theory and practice.
i say i can sense something about someone else's writing...and i get questioned.
and i generally just do not relpy.
of COURSE i can sense by what is written! so can everyone else!
and i have to read this wolf guy, always negative....
i just dont fit here.
can you hear me? do you care?
its like when i read a page, and i dont know what i just read.
i am not trying to be negative, its just a sense that i have.
some that i sense that i like, also seem as though they wish to quit.
so, it is us, or them?
do not offer a problem without a solution.
ill go out on a limb here: point blank, no pulled punches.
many of you, are hypocrites.
you claim something that you do not practice.
older than the hills.
stop offering problems without solutions.
so here is mine:
stop pretending to be a jedi. it takes work.
you cant say that you are a member of the jedi temple because, you question everyone and everything.
its without merit.
instead, find a solution.
do what some apprentice did. learn.
15 minutes a day....thats one percent.
use it to make your life better.
was no place close to my point, but it was damned good solution.
so...my solution?
stop asking questions and start giving solutions.
it doesnt matter if it will work or not.
yes, we did land on the moon and come back with less computational power than your smartphone.
take a good look at yourself.
i do, i dont like what i see. take steps.
anyway, ive went on way too long.
i am not sorry for it.

to learn, is to live.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3

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15 Jan 2020 13:08 #348418 by Geni Jeuls
says the person yet to prove themselves yet.

wait a while, do some training yourself, before you judge those whom have trained or judge this place worthy of your praise.

boo

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15 Jan 2020 13:11 #348419 by Arkalius

ghosty wrote: i dont know....
i havent decided yet. my gut says, i dont fit here.
i dont want to quit, i just have this sense that i do not fit her.
i have always appreciated you.
not sucking up, just facts.
liked your suggestion about 1 percent.
and nobody else even got my point.
and really, i wasnt even saying that, but yea. 15 minutes of one day...
what could be done with that?
i think that rocked.
all i get is question question questjon to my own questions.
here is difference: i will never offer a problem without a solution.
if the jedi way is just to go "i dont know" then its not for me.
i seek truth.
i dunno how else to put it.
i really like it here, yet, have a very distinct sense of i dont belong.
not in a bad way. i am either farther ahead, or farther behind?
either way, its not "HERE."
does that make sense?


If your questions are met with questions, I'm sure the intent is not to offer further problems without solutions. The Jedi way isn't to offer "I don't know" in response to a question. It is to help you, in that moment, come to learn the answer of your own accord. Being told an answer is not the same as learning an answer. It's similar to the adage "Give a man a fish, he's fed for a meal. Teach a man to fish, and he's fed for life." If the answers are just freely given, that moment is enriched, but it is superficial. It is -that- moment.

If I asked "What is today?" and got the answer "Wednesday." Then boom- I know what today's today is. But what about tomorrow's day? I'll just have to ask again- "What is today?" And if I have always been given the outright answer, then I will always rely on others to determine what the day is. But if I ask "What is today?" and the response I got each time I asked, "What was yesterday?" Well, at that point I'm going to think. And not only does that give me the chance to grow and solve my question on my own- it answers that same question infinitely. Yesterday was Tuesday, so today is Wednesday. And if I forget what day it is tomorrow, I just have to look back on what yesterday was again. I've become self sufficient in solving my own problem- all because I wasn't given the direct answer, but instead was questioned in return.

...Obviously that is a very simple example, but I think it serves to demonstrate the point. Try not to look at return questions as an "I don't know" or an unwillingness to answer you. Take it as a personal challenge to grow in the moment. Look at the question asked of you, and perhaps find a new angle or train of thought that will help you.

Because the Jedi way is not to say, "I don't know,"- but to say, "I don't know yet, but in time, I will."
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Skryym

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15 Jan 2020 17:00 #348429 by ZealotX

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote: If a leader walked up to me and told me he was a quitter I would not follow them. Would that not be strange?


I would be more peeved by a leader trying to convince me that he is perfect, than one who openly acknowledges he is as flawed as any other person, which I believe was the spirit of Carlos' post.


quitting doesn't make you a quitter
smoking doesn't make you a smoker
stealing doesn't make you a thief
lying doesn't make you a liar
drinking alcohol doesn't make you a drinker
etc.

So no, I wouldn't follow a "quitter" because that person accepts quitting as a part of their identity and may quit any time the road gets tough. If they have simply quit something before then it means they have experience that can help inform future decisions.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rex

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15 Jan 2020 17:29 #348430 by ZealotX

ghosty wrote: perhaps as you learn, you find out it was not worth pursuing?
thats a bundle there, no hidden fees no contracts.
i could type at length, and im happy that i can, and that somebody out there reads it. thank you.
im just not sure that my voice matters here.
i dont mean as in, my vote or what not doesnt count....i mean, i am really questioning my "fit."
it may be best for all that i just leave.
i hope my questions have provoked thought. that was their intent.
i dont know the answers, but i do have thoughts and solutions.
and that is what i see as lacking at this temple.
lots of pokes, but no solutions.
tip:
do not tear down without an idea of how to build...
its like nobody understands the difference between theory and practice.
i say i can sense something about someone else's writing...and i get questioned.
and i generally just do not relpy.
of COURSE i can sense by what is written! so can everyone else!
and i have to read this wolf guy, always negative....
i just dont fit here.
can you hear me? do you care?
its like when i read a page, and i dont know what i just read.
i am not trying to be negative, its just a sense that i have.
some that i sense that i like, also seem as though they wish to quit.
so, it is us, or them?
do not offer a problem without a solution.
ill go out on a limb here: point blank, no pulled punches.
many of you, are hypocrites.
you claim something that you do not practice.
older than the hills.
stop offering problems without solutions.
so here is mine:
stop pretending to be a jedi. it takes work.
you cant say that you are a member of the jedi temple because, you question everyone and everything.
its without merit.
instead, find a solution.
do what some apprentice did. learn.
15 minutes a day....thats one percent.
use it to make your life better.
was no place close to my point, but it was damned good solution.
so...my solution?
stop asking questions and start giving solutions.
it doesnt matter if it will work or not.
yes, we did land on the moon and come back with less computational power than your smartphone.
take a good look at yourself.
i do, i dont like what i see. take steps.
anyway, ive went on way too long.
i am not sorry for it.


Your voice is like any other voice. It doesn't matter if no one hears it because you don't use it. Being a Jedi is not about what everyone else is doing. It's about what you are doing. It's not about what everyone else is learning. It's about what you're learning. It's not about what other Jedi like (if they like to quote movies for example). It's about what you like.

Everywhere you go, there are people. Some of them will agree with you some of the time. No one will ever agree with you 100% about everything (not even a clone). And that's simply because no two humans are exactly alike; not even identical twins. So it's not about your opinion of other Jedi. It's about your expectations. You have to understand your own self and why you expect other people to be or become your identical twin or fall in line with your way of thinking.

Let's say you had this power... and you became president, not of the U.S. but of the whole entire world. What if you had the power to change everyone and make everyone adopt your identity, wants, needs, the whole package that is uniquely you. Would you do it? Would you turn everyone into you? Or do you value your own unique identity? Do you value your own differences? Because if you value your own differences you should also want to protect those difference against some other person who could hypothetically have this power to change you into themselves.

TOTJO is a place for us to socially connect with each other. If you weren't different from me we would have nothing to talk about and you wouldn't have an opinion that could ever interest me because I would already agree. I can only then conclude from this that it is the "will" of the Force, or simply "nature's design" that life flows along slightly differentiating pathways so that no two living organisms are exactly alike. And that creates so much more value. We look up and see a sky that isn't all blue, or all clouds with exactly the same density and color. We look down and we see grass that isn't all the exact same green, shape, and size. A Jedi should see the beauty in that.

And the other thing is being a Jedi isn't about what you can "take" from TOJO. Every real relationship is both give and take. If you don't give you shouldn't expect to take anything. If you don't make yourself a part of the conversations you shouldn't complain about them imho. If you don't add to the threads that have nothing to do with the movies and create new threads about the topics you want to discuss, then why complain about topics you didn't create? Everyone has some measure of control. You could create a topic to complain and talk about quitting. Or you could start a topic about why you wanted to be a Jedi in the first place and what you hope that your journey will become. One is positive. The other is negative. They both have the potential, as subjects, to interest other people and get attention and start conversation. But I'm just saying that the choice between positive and negative is up to each one of us. Making TOJO a better place is up to each one of us. It's not Bro. John's or the council's or the knights' or the apprentices' responsibility. It's everyone's. And that's life. We all can do our part to make something better than it was yesterday. The question is do we try. And that's my solution to you. Try. Treat TOTJO like it's your life. Why even give yourself the option to quit? It's way too easy in our society: friends, marriages, jobs, clubs, too hard? quit. And then next time quitting gets easier. And easier. Oh you had a bad day? Suicide. That's not a solution. That is the utter and combined rejection of all possible and potential solutions. Try. If that doesn't work, try harder. If that doesn't work, keep trying. Successful people aren't born that way. They have to try, knowing that they can fail. And you can try to distance yourself but you're still part of everything TOTJO is and isn't. But first you have to take a hard look at your own expectations and ask yourself why you have so many expectations, not for yourself.... but for others.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Proteus, elizabeth

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15 Jan 2020 19:13 #348436 by elizabeth
I think we all question our fit here, I do but I don't see it as negative but a positive finding your feet kind of thing.
ZealotX said it brilliantly and I agree with them totally.

One thing I would say is that it is really hard to read someones intent through text. In my case I rely mainly on a persons expressions and tone, or the way they move, their gestures.
I have made a lot of assumptions via text and thats on me and I have had to learn here to step back and think not just react to how I read anothers words.
On another note I think every voice here counts and every person here makes this website a Jedi Temple. Everyone who leaves or stays is this Temple and a part of my overall journey.

But stay or go, its a personal decision and it can change at anytime. Make the most of your own journey and dont get too caught up in worrying about further down the line.

TM carlos.Martinez3
No one is coming to save you
Save yourself
The following user(s) said Thank You: Proteus, Carlos.Martinez3, OB1Shinobi, Skryym, ZealotX

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15 Jan 2020 22:29 #348447 by OB1Shinobi
Id also like to point out that nobody is the definitive voice of TOTJO. Some people may post more frequently or more provocatively but we are a pretty diverse community. For every person you feel is not carrying themselves the way you feel is appropriate for a Jedi, id be willing to bet there are several, unnoticed others who do.

β€œTo be impeccable means to put your life on the line in order to back up your decisions, and then to do quite a lot more than your best to realize those decisions.”
-Carlos Castaneda
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