The Jedi and the Bodhisattva

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05 Nov 2019 15:07 - 05 Nov 2019 15:12 #345221 by OB1Shinobi
Ive met too many real people to believe that everyone is their own best guru. You cant teach yourself what you dont know. No one would ever say “you are your own best veterinarian”. Its probably in all of our interests to look for and learn from people who are genuinely competent in their respective fields of study. But i suppose it doesnt directly affect me if people want to assume themselves their own best gurus, as long as they dont assume they are also everyone else's best guru. Which happens plenty; people assume themselves to be gurus all the time. We get our share of them coming through here, trying to hold court and parcel out their fortune-cookie wisdom, lol. Tease them a little and they get butt-hurt just like everyone else. Give them a counter-point to their own beliefs and they become just as obtuse as everyone else.

“As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.”
-Don Juan Matus
Last edit: 05 Nov 2019 15:12 by OB1Shinobi.
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05 Nov 2019 16:35 #345226 by Omhu Cuspor

Freedom wrote: ... Yes anyone can become a Bodhisattva, just like anyone can become a 'jedi', but not everyone on said path will attain to the fruits of that path. An unenlighteded bodhisattva differs greatly from an enlightened one.
The Hitler baby idea is interesting but flawed in it's assumptions ... it reminds me of hearing a story here in South Africa of a lady being assulted and mugged in a crowed of people, no one lifted a finger to help her. Like antelope who leave the weakest to their demise, thinking phew at least it wasn't me this time. But again I stress that, yes, we ordinary minds have no idea of the repercussions of our actions, but we still take the action of what is appropriate for the situation, and in this way wisdom overrides dogma. How mush more so of a truly enlightened being?


This is a good response, Freedom. I have to admit that if I were in that crowd in South Africa you mentioned, I'd like to think that I'd have helped the woman - though would I actually overcome my fear to oppose the assaulter? In the most similar situations I've experienced, some point to "yes" and some point to "no". I really couldn't say without it happening, but in the heat of the moment I think providing assistance is the only ethical response.

Yet, if I did, that - defended the lady, repelled the assaulter, been the hero of the day - in my private reflections I'd still feel that I'd failed, especially if the attacker was injured. Among some of philosophical practitioners of martial arts, there is a precept: "Once combat begins, all participants have lost." The principle there is that no one ever wins a war; at best, one party just suffers less.

I'd walk away thinking "there must've been a better solution," as I know there are precedents where in tense, confrontational situations compassionate people have found a way to honor everyone and avoid a fight. I would regret that I was not sufficiently insightful to find the opportunity to do likewise, in the firm belief that the opportunity was there.
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05 Nov 2019 16:47 #345227 by Omhu Cuspor

OB1Shinobi wrote: Ive met too many real people to believe that everyone is their own best guru. You cant teach yourself what you dont know. ... Which happens plenty; people assume themselves to be gurus all the time. We get our share of them coming through here, trying to hold court and parcel out their fortune-cookie wisdom, lol. ....


I can appreciate that sentiment, but find it hard to not be heavily influenced by personal experience in my own outlook. In younger years when I began to realize that there were spiritual perceptions more uplifting than my own and that God would not hate me if I explored them, I latched on to the teachings of a number of well-known guru figures of the time - Da Free John (Franklin Jones), Atmananda (Frederick Lenz), one of the dominant teachers in the Religious Science movement, Barry Tellman and Yogananda, as well as some less famous people. With the exception of Yogananda, each of those people - while he or she was well versed in metaphysics - wound up in disgrace. Financial manipulation, sexual abuse, illicit drugs, and even a couple of suicides stained their teachings. I learned to be pretty much universally suspect of gurus.

But, I also agree that being my own guru isn't such a hot idea. I have my own failings, I am not perfect enough to lead myself to enlightenment. I think what I trust is Life - Life is my guru. Life sometimes gifts me with insights from wise souls of the past and present in easy-to-absorb ways. When I act wisely, Life bestows blessings upon me; when I'm an idiot, Life slaps me with its karma to teach a painful lesson.

So, I'd say ... Life is my guru.
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05 Nov 2019 17:59 #345228 by Carlos.Martinez3
I love this thread. I can only speak for me.

I find my own path cultivating a lot more practical applications when I apply it parallel with my Jediism. That’s just me. Others can have a equal similar and polar opposite of what I get and every where in between.
For me -
The idea of ideas or schools of thought help me a lot. Personally

For me
You can’t make me do anything. Won’t happen. It’s until - the inside - wants it then- the actions change. It’s the Seek as I call it in my own Jediism but it’s the desire or the wonder or hunger or zeal or ( what ever you call it - the ideas are what get me and the ability to apply those ideas in the real world... that for me is my bliss.

The ability or the school that there can be - and there does and there always will be that force of give... that idea. Even better is I can tap it ! Daily! Weekly ! At any given moment there can be the same choices I have made or ... new ones and even ones I’ve never thought possible. That idea... it’s like ( for me ) the Force. I got no control over it and I only just experience it more than anything else. It ain’t me.
These ideas for me are a “selfless” ideas so very valid in my life. I’ve felt so welcomed at places where these ideas were shared - So welcomed - I still miss being next to those folks years later. That type of being can exist - I’ve seen it - that’s my goal is to be an example of what CAN be when applied. My hope is my small one example is the one that helps some one out or is the 23 time they heard that maybe somethings worth paying attention to....

(in Mahayana Buddhism) a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings

Some one said one time - or it’s a song - it’s defiantly a whole world idea...There’s no greater love than this than to be willing to die so another might live....

I’ve got it tattooed on my saluting arm an old creed - “So others might live...”
[a old rescue swimmer thing ]

Narvana or not for me the action is every where. It happens with - or - without me.

My choices are as I practice. As a modern day Jeddist - there’s no ultimate point for me - I won’t ever be - there ! Ya know - the light in the sky wearing no undies type of guy - ain’t wrong - ain’t me. The choice to help others is one I made. My ministry is my choice every day. I love it. I get better every day and grow the more I keep sharing with everyone. That’s how I learn and grow. I apply the same ideas and schools to my Jediism. The parallel parts of selfless and service cuz... if it works - and it does for me... I’m for it. It was hard to break my glass ceilings on some types of things but after a while - it became a path of beautiful things. Beautiful. I would say from my own experience that paths like these are worth learning and at least finding out about. Worth passing to me.

There are so many selfless type of paths out there- my own search will NEVER be over. That’s ok. Keeps me sharp! Lol
Thank you ?

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05 Nov 2019 18:30 #345231 by CaesarEJW
Wouldn't being selfless for it's own sake technically be selfish?
The same as trying to kill the ego when motivated to do so by the ego?
Just wondering.
Thoughts?

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
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05 Nov 2019 18:36 #345232 by CaesarEJW

OB1Shinobi wrote: Ive met too many real people to believe that everyone is their own best guru....

Many are ignorant, if not willfully blind, to their own shortcomings.
And being so, many have no desire to change themselves, be it for the better or otherwise.
Which is alright, I guess, as long as they are happy, and don't cause any unnecessary suffering in themselves or others.

There seems to be a rampant trend of anti-intellectualism in the United States in recent years (in my generation especially).
This seriously bothers me. Many are disdainful of intelligence and knowledge, which is silly, but all too commonplace.
But then again, I live in the rural Missouri Ozarks, so it may just be a "here" sort of thing.

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
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05 Nov 2019 18:43 - 05 Nov 2019 19:00 #345233 by Carlos.Martinez3
Wouldn't being selfless for it's own sake technically be selfish?
The same as trying to kill the ego when motivated to do so by the ego?
Just wondering.
Thoughts


And this is a hard part for modern day Jeddist every where - for me -personally - nope- but it Can for others - has it for me in the past - yup! I’ve been to that place of masks and lies and pretending and confusion - very much seemed for me like no one was in control of my life - I no longer feel like that. I remember doing things for a lot of wrong reason s - Intentionally- I don’t have to make the same choices any more. My mown choice. It is a mix of my own practices and my own Jediism so you could say - it’s my own Jediism. We each got one. I’ve done things for attention. “Dark “ reasons or just trying to get away with something. That’s me - can’t speak for any one else. We all got our reasons. In the really real world that guy - me - that guy was a jerk and an idiot. I was a mess. Today I’m still a mess but now it’s not the same mess. I can safely say I’ve grown. That’s the idea for me any way. Selfish or not - is a point of view for some. It’s a practice for some and it’s an obstacle for others. What am I- and what are you gunna do with it ? Which choices ? What color will it glow this time !? What style will I use? The good stuff! Smiley face in the end - what do you - think and choose. Your totally allowed. As a Jeddist and even as a human being. Go figure.

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Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
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The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 05 Nov 2019 19:00 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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05 Nov 2019 21:35 #345244 by CaesarEJW

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: And this is a hard part for modern day Jeddist every where - for me -personally - nope- but it Can for others - has it for me in the past - yup! I’ve been to that place of masks and lies and pretending and confusion - very much seemed for me like no one was in control of my life - I no longer feel like that. I remember doing things for a lot of wrong reason s - Intentionally- I don’t have to make the same choices any more. My mown choice. It is a mix of my own practices and my own Jediism so you could say - it’s my own Jediism. We each got one. I’ve done things for attention. “Dark “ reasons or just trying to get away with something. That’s me - can’t speak for any one else. We all got our reasons. In the really real world that guy - me - that guy was a jerk and an idiot. I was a mess. Today I’m still a mess but now it’s not the same mess. I can safely say I’ve grown. That’s the idea for me any way. Selfish or not - is a point of view for some. It’s a practice for some and it’s an obstacle for others. What am I- and what are you gunna do with it ? Which choices ? What color will it glow this time !? What style will I use? The good stuff! Smiley face in the end - what do you - think and choose. Your totally allowed. As a Jeddist and even as a human being. Go figure.


Excellent answer as always, Carlos. Discernment and self-awareness are incredibly important virtues.

“Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone.” - Alan Watts
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06 Nov 2019 12:29 #345258 by Freedom
A meditation teacher once said " Be very selfish, but know where your true self interest lies ". If your true self interest lies in compassion for others, then your intent is pure.
As for one being their own guru, Allen Watts describes it best. Yes you need a teacher but in the teaching of true perception the student should experience that truth as his own and not as something just heard and remembered. In that way the teacher points the finger, but it's up to us to look at the moon. Lol Allen Watts is a Jedi in my mind.

Freedom
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