Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: According to the World Health Organization, 56 million people die each year, which is an average of about 153,424 people each day. The exact number of people who die each day, however, fluctuates.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: You have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind, until now, until now you’ve become the very thing you swore to destroy.

Anakin Skywalker: Don’t lecture me, Obi-Wan! I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Your new Empire?

Anakin Skywalker: Don’t make me kill you.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy.

Anakin Skywalker: If you’re not with me, then you’re my enemy. And besides, so what if I killed younglings. According to the world health organization children die all the time. That's small potatoes compared to the 56 million who die every single year.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Geez... you're right Anakin. What have I been doing all this time? Why fight or save anyone? Millions are going to die no matter what...

Anakin Skywalker: Dude! That's what I'm saying, bro. You should come on over to the dark side.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: Do you have cookies?

Anakin Skywalker: We have cookies.

Ok that was just funny right there, don't care who you are that's just funny/

Now, on a serious note, how do you know who the dark lords are? By there very nature they are hard to identify, or else they would be pretty crappy dark lords...............

Please stop making me defend orange man.

Much Love, Respect, and Peace,
Kobos

Ahhh ... you know what happens when you give a Jeddist a cookie ...

Edit : they will ask for a drink and sit down and eat it aka ... listen, at least till the coffee and cookie are gone.!

Kobos wrote: Now, on a serious note, who do you know who the dark lords are? By there very nature they are hard to identify, or else they would be pretty crappy dark lords...............

Exactly... I agree 100%. I do see Trump as a dark lord of the sith. Does he claim to be a sith? No. Does he have to? Did Palpatine?

One of our first encounters (according to the timeline, not the appearance of the movies) with Palpatine as a dark lord was him maneuvering two sides of the same republic into conflict. Palpatine used the threat of war to provoke a response that would ultimately make him the person they voted for to handle that threat.

On the other hand, Trump came in by telling the public to be afraid. "Their rapists. Their murderers." Steve King supports this by saying they have calves the size of cantaloupes. South Park had a long running joke about poor whites mad about immigrants taking their jobs and forming a mob.



Of course it was the Trade Federation that Palpatine was effectively controlling. On the other hand, by attacking foreign trade deals like NAFTA and starting a trade war with China Trump seems to be trying to form a blockade against products moving in and out of the country. But does he realize how many American jobs that would effect?

Palpatine, of course, used Naboo to get elected. In this Trump is different because he used Russian interference to help him get elected. Not only was Trump promising and ease of sanctions against Russia but we still see Trump pandering to our enemy, seeming to suggest that he would accept future aid from them and even arguing that he will work to get them back into the G8 without Russia giving up anything. That almost makes it seem more like Putin is the real emperor and Trump is more like Dooku.

This seems inconsistent but if you think about the Rule of Two, Trump acts like Putin's apprentice the same way Palpatine was an apprentice to Darth Plagueis.

Of course their completely different! I'm just kidding. After all, Palpatine executed Order 66 attacking his own law enforcement arm who he saw as a potential threat where as, on the other hand, its not like Trump would ever attack the FBI or fire its leader, triggering some kind of Special Counsel situation.

And its not like Palpatine who was accused of being a Sith lord and attempted execution for treason, but thrwarted for the sake of a more democratic process, is anything like the currently failed (still holding out hope) attempt to impeach Trump for his numerous attempts to obstruct justice according to Robert Mueller.

These guys are totally different! I mean Palpatine was using aliens like Jar Jar and Maul with speculation about being xenophobic because the policies of the Empire trended towards xenophobia https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Xenophobia


But hell... that's NOTHING like Trump being seen as racist while US policy tends to favor immigrants from European countries and largely ignores border "threats" on the northern border. (white [border] walkers welcome)

As well it is assumed that Palpatine somehow inherited his fortune from his master, which is in no way similar to Trump inheriting millions upon millions from his father Fred Trump.

Palpatine's focus on the military is nothing at all like Trump's focus on the military and wanting big extravagant military parades like North Korea.

There are so many dissimilarities I can hardly keep track. But aside from all these blatant distinctions what you have with Trump is someone who has achieved great wealth and power mostly by deception, not by forceful seizure. That's in no way similar to what Sidious did. They're so different, in fact, that Trump must have watched the whole SW series just as set of lessons of what not to do. And because he learned nothing from SW he makes sure that anyone in his immediate circle who even has a hint of disloyalty has to go... you know... before they can push him down a flight of stairs. The guy is so anti sith that he must be a Jedi.

This is sarcasm if anyone couldn't tell.

Kobos wrote: Please stop making me defend orange man.

I feel ya bro

Didn't Mueller say that Russia-gate was false? Thats probably the one argument that erks me, mostly because it was three years of essentially wasted time, provided Mueller was telling the truth when he said it was false. And now the Dems used the same logic of Russia interference against Tulsi Gabbard, one of their own! That's the main thing I can't stand about the far left: they are effectively ostracizing the centrists which will inevitably go to the right by default if they don't see the left on their side. I'm not defending Trump, rather I'm explain why both sides just irritate me nowadays.

Also, I do think some of the far left may be for open borders, as some do want to decriminalize border crossings, so is that not open borders?

Also, to get this back to the original question albeit in a different aspect, what do you guys think about a Jedi supporting his IDEAS, such as strong border and military and less reliance on Chine, but not his methods or boorish nature?

Deimos I think me and you have a very similar media diet, probably because of our mutual source ole Timmy. He's made me look deeper into things that catch my attention and that's gone a long way to change some of my views that and the fact that a constructive conversation is now incredibly difficult to have.

Zealot, So, this all said about Trump what is our alternative? The FBI thing was kinda legit since the FBI head admitted to leaking information about an active case, that's just poor law enforcement work period. Say impeachment succeeds (supposing he gets a second term), then what Pence, because I do not like Trump but dang Pence is like right wing Biden, that to me doesn't bode well. In your opinion which of the officials running against Trump is going to be a good fight for the crisis of our time? I am actually trying to have a good conversation here even though we may disagree and really only kinda.

Much Love,
Kobos

Assuming you mean Tim Pool, he's the only one I really watch as he seems mostly centrist with a slight lean left, like myself. My friend called him a jackass because he's conservative, and I just face palmed when I read that....

I do have a question...
as a Jedi - a Jeddist - a what ever your label is ... any one not us ... do they automatically look like Sith? Why is it so easy to say well I don’t believe like him sooooo you must be a Sith... it’s like our Catch22 sometimes. “ if you weigh less than a duck you must be a witch!” I do it too. On that idea alone - a palpitate will always be present and a side will always be taken. Good will always see bad as dark and dark will always be blinded by the light ... no matter how dim or the strength. There came a time where all of that ... the light the dark finally made sense to me. Differently ... I should say - then things started to change. I don’t like Trump. I don’t like my bosses. But I did vote for him for different reasons. What are we doing with our freedoms? We argue politics - words - meanings and all the whole ...nothing gets done.


High wind
Big thunder
No rain.

I personally don't, but even if we do/did, does that make the other wrong by default. I mean vixen is sith, and I personally like the discussions that he is in because it's a different mindset, and as Jedi should we not strive to at least understand someone on a basic level? For change to happen, and understanding needs to be present imho. Hence why I like talking to Trump supps, Trump haters, etc IF they keep it civil and don't flail madly into incoherent arguments of ad hominem attacks of orange man bad or blind support without calling him out when needed.

Hilarious! So riled up about what we're told! I imagine this is how Christianity became so important...

Honestly, how many of you are educated in statecraft? Have the information necessary to make cogent decisions over millions of people's welfare? Realy expect that what is available to us outside of those upper echelons is enough to make a decision of truth and rightness?

No.


I don't blame any of you. If that is what is important, you have to make a decision. And what decision could you make but by what information is available to you?

I appreciate that you are playing the game and it is important to you. Just remember that your not the player, but a pawn. (Assuming none of you holds a position in national politics, that is)

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Yes , every where not only in America.

Since you're universally and chronically obtuse, allow me to rephrase: People are dying as a direct result of Trump's policies.
You know damn well what I meant.
[hr]
Also, let's take a moment and re-assess the opening question using an analogy:

• Jedi believe the sky is blue.
• Orange man says sky is green.
• You support orange man.
• By association, you support orange man's claim sky is green.
• You no longer believe sky is blue.
• ∴, you are no longer Jedi.

Deimos wrote: Didn't Mueller say that Russia-gate was false? Thats probably the one argument that erks me, mostly because it was three years of essentially wasted time, provided Mueller was telling the truth when he said it was false. And now the Dems used the same logic of Russia interference against Tulsi Gabbard, one of their own! That's the main thing I can't stand about the far left: they are effectively ostracizing the centrists which will inevitably go to the right by default if they don't see the left on their side. I'm not defending Trump, rather I'm explain why both sides just irritate me nowadays.

No, and let me apologize in advance if I'm over-explaining this because I consume a lot of news and I have a good idea how confusing all of this is. Mueller said he could not exonerate the president. There is a lot of legalese in the Mueller report. Essentially, what it says is that there are a lot of questionable contacts and things going on. Not to mention they could not interview the POTUS and people were actively obstructing justice. You don't need to obstruct justice for a non-existent crime. That's like me robbing a bank and then murdering the bank teller who is about to testify. Now you can find me guilty for murdering the teller but there's a chance I might now escape on the bank robbery if your other evidence isn't good enough.

Prosecutors do not have to take a case to trial. Often they use grand juries and see if they have enough to convict. It's kind of like an NBA player considering whether he can make a long distance shot or not. Maybe. Maybe not. If my name is Lebron the chances are more likely. The chance of success is basically what Mueller was debating in his report. Section 1, wasn't simply about whether or not the interference had happened. It was whether Trump actively participated in a conspiracy that resulted in Russia working on his behalf. Mueller couldn't find enough evidence to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that he did. He didn't find evidence to prove that he didn't either. The result was him saying, I could try to make this shot but I don't have a high degree of certainty its going in. And a defense attorney might have a good chance of blocking that shot. Again... this doesn't mean Trump is innocent. It just means his guilt couldn't be easily proven. And according to DOJ guidelines Mueller was not allowed to indict a sitting president. When asked if he would go after him after he got out of office the answer was yes; maybe not on the conspiracy (because the standard for proving it is VERY high) but definitely on the obstruction.

Again... you don't shoot the bank teller before she can testify and you don't delete the tapes if that wasn't you robbing the bank. Why would you commit a crime to cover up a crime you didn't commit? And because Mueller couldn't indict Trump, by a strange but legal twist of logic he wasn't even allowed to say Trump was guilty. Because you're innocent until proven guilty.

So it wasn't a waste. Trump just dodged the first bullet by engaging in obstruction (basically hiding the body) but Mueller did find several offenses that are 100% crimes that can be prosecuted. So yeah... he's pretty much guilty but we'd have to have a trial to actually get to that verdict. We can't just say guilty because the prosecutor is pretty sure he can win.

rugadd wrote: Hilarious! So riled up about what we're told! I imagine this is how Christianity became so important...

Honestly, how many of you are educated in statecraft? Have the information necessary to make cogent decisions over millions of people's welfare? Realy expect that what is available to us outside of those upper echelons is enough to make a decision of truth and rightness?

No.


I don't blame any of you. If that is what is important, you have to make a decision. And what decision could you make but by what information is available to you?

I appreciate that you are playing the game and it is important to you. Just remember that your not the player, but a pawn. (Assuming none of you holds a position in national politics, that is)

Sorry but when was Donald Trump educated in statecraft, where is that diploma/degree, and why does he suck at it so bad?

ANYONE can run to be president, as 2016 showed us. America simply rolled the dice on a corrupt businessman as a segment of America longed for the days when they had elected an actor.

You really think Donald Trump is president because Donald Trump decided to make that move by himself?

He is a puppet to entertain the crowds and he certainly has your apt attention.

steamboat28 wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Yes , every where not only in America.

Since you're universally and chronically obtuse, allow me to rephrase: People are dying as a direct result of Trump's policies.
You know damn well what I meant.
[hr]
Also, let's take a moment and re-assess the opening question using an analogy:

• Jedi believe the sky is blue.
• Orange man says sky is green.
• You support orange man.
• By association, you support orange man's claim sky is green.
• You no longer believe sky is blue.
• ∴, you are no longer Jedi.

Steam you know I love people, I would assume you can gather I do not like seeing people hurt, and I don't support Trump but I got to ask this when did "don't venomously oppose" become the equivalent of support?

That is a terrible terrible precedence to set, like literally leads to violence on levels equivalent to what you are charging Trump with, in fact it is unbelievably similar to his rhetoric in and of itself.

This is the danger of these discussions if we end up getting lost so deeply in the emotion of it that we do not see the consequences for our own words are we any better than what we oppose?

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Deimos wrote: I personally don't, but even if we do/did, does that make the other wrong by default. I mean vixen is sith, and I personally like the discussions that he is in because it's a different mindset, and as Jedi should we not strive to at least understand someone on a basic level? For change to happen, and understanding needs to be present imho. Hence why I like talking to Trump supps, Trump haters, etc IF they keep it civil and don't flail madly into incoherent arguments of ad hominem attacks of orange man bad or blind support without calling him out when needed.

You're right. That's why I said I actually liked what VV was saying when using that sith mindset. I'm still gonna disagree of course, but I appreciate that perspective just like I enjoyed reading Darth Bane. But with that said, whether you're jedi or sith I don't want anyone being fooled into following, supporting, voting for, etc. a person who is trying to play all of us for fools. And when we're not looking he tells the whole story. "I grab em by the *****". And even when some of us are looking he's like "I could shoot someone on 5th avenue and not lose any voters". Do you know how insulting that is to the American people? That's basically telling you that you're going to support him no matter what he does because we're too stupid not to. And that's why when he was reported to have said black people were too stupid to vote for him (according to Cohen), I believe he said that. When he said he wanted Jews to count his money I believe he said that because on camera he talked about how he didn't want poor people working in high office with him. He was basically saying, if you're not rich like him you're a loser. But people love it though. It's amazing.

Kobos wrote: when did "don't venomously oppose" become the equivalent of support?

When literal Nazis got involved.