Special Needs Society

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28 Aug 2019 01:38 #342544 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Special Needs Society
Then simply put if you will simply disregard the sensibilities of the audience or the community in which you are stating your opinion then do not expect to be treated with the courtesy as the rest of the community. Meaning don't be so quick to throw the troll flag.

No you are not a student to be taught, you are another member of this community and you are being corrected because they way you act doesn't help the discussion at all. As I stated to you in a DM I don;t like bending my knee in my workplace for sensiblities but I realize the environment I am in and that's part of it. Compromise is not a weakness it is a strength particularly when you are trying to get a message out..........

Again life isn't fair don't expect to act any way you want in someone else's house with out effect on how you are treated. You ask for accomodation (like being allowed to carry on after a ban) but bitch about accomidation as a whole.......................................

Just callin it flatly how it is seen from the outside

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis

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28 Aug 2019 02:19 #342553 by Phoenix Vidensia

Lukezilla wrote: The two are not mutually inclusive or exclusive. A hostile discussion can still be a fruitful one but it takes more time to become a productive one. If you start a discussion in an aggressive manner, people will respond defensively or with their own aggression and that gets no one anywhere. No one is saying to make this a "Safe space" As you say. In fact, it seems to me that people here are willing to discuss any subject matter regardless of how uncomfortable it may be so long as it's done with respect.


First, my respect is earned, not freely given.

Furthermore, have I broken a rule by posting as I did? If not, just stop trying to correct me. It's irritating.

... Meh ...

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28 Aug 2019 02:19 #342554 by Kelrax Lorcken
I respectfully disagree.

The "squeaky wheel" analogy, while not entirely inappropriate, I can't but feel unavoidably frames people, particularly those who are, in one way or another, disadvantaged, as problems to be solved. At best, it is felt, on the receiving end of such an attitude, as dehumanizing, and at worst, adversarial. Viewing people as problems unintentionally, but unavoidably, has a way of putting people at odds needlessly. I do not view some having needs in the same category as "a vocal minority making demands", regardless of what the needs are. If it has come to a point of loudly making demands, well, I would argue it's to be expected from any group, if ignored long enough, and yet still there tends to be a sense of hostility leveled at the "wheel" for "squeaking".

There also, unavoidably, flows an undercurrent of resentment; accommodations, or attempts at a more equitable state of things, is often cast in a light of switching places. Such issues as "equality" and "accommodation" do not involve zero-sum totals. We are not disadvantaged simply for some receiving some manner of accommodation, putting in a ramp does not remove the stairs. Nor does one persons right to equitable treatment come at the expense of others; we are not oppressed simply for some fighting to attain the same rights we've always had. Finally, no longer having an advantage (that many of us were not previously aware we had) is not the same as being placed at a disadvantage.

I would argue that progress is not strictly technological/scientific advancement; as a social species, which we have most certainly been for quite some time, strives when it can to accommodate and care for it's participants just as completely as possible. Furthermore, counter to popular logic, thrives better when it does so; We all do better, when we all do better. Which brings me to my next point:

Individual effort is commendable, but is more often than we care to admit, insufficient. The original, entire point of the "boot-straps" analogy is that it is impossible to do some tihings, particularly alone/without assistance.

I'm sorry to say my own experience is the opposite to yours, Vidensia, and saddened to admit mine is not the common experience. I had to see a speech therapist before I truly learned to speak, before it delayed my entry into the academic system, and it was this professional who noticed and suggested to my parents that I was within the realm of what we, today, call "neurodivergency". I was diagnosed as having Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder, and thankfully at a very early age. Given the choice, thankfully, my parents decided against the suggestion of waiting to see if I leveled out on my own, and instead saw to it that I began treatment, not only medications (I was on and off ritalin for several years), but also taken aside to engage in additional tutelage, in addition to being expected to maintain normal academic performance, to the same standards as my classmates. There was no restriction to my diet; indeed, at the time when I was diagnosed, sugar was not considered to be the source of my fits of manic hyperactivity, since there was no credible link between the two. In fact, one effective treatment I was subjected to was to sit down and suck on a coffee bean. It was counter-intuitive, but, it worked, and it worked consistently. I was very fortunate, indeed, to have been diagnosed as early as I was, and received the treatment, assistance and care I needed, not to have an advantage over my peers, but to be enabled to at least attempt to function on the same level, which, again, for how it was handled, I was successful at. My classmates did suffer for my occommodation, as it took nothing away from them, nor was I a burden to my teachers, and, in fact, I was regarded as an absolute pleasure to have in class.

I find it ethically and morally wrong that you were treated and "handled" the way you were, especially for being a child at the time.

But it is similarly wrong to insist some people live harder lives, endure more suffering, when it is not actually necessary, simply because such care and assistance was not available, or made available, when it would have been beneficial to you.

I say this next part not as an attack on you, personally, but as an observation: Does it not strike you as hypocritical to express such sentiments as this thread opened with, while yourself pushing for what would amount to a "safe space", to your benefit by avoiding the people you dislike to interact with and evade criticism from temple members, some of whom partake in a mutual disinterest in getting along? Is it logical to ask for something simply for your own comfort, when you feel others do not deserve the same when having it might actually improve their lives, without affecting your own?

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/47-Jo...-stormcaller?start=0
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28 Aug 2019 02:27 - 28 Aug 2019 02:28 #342555 by Phoenix Vidensia

Kobos wrote: Then simply put if you will simply disregard the sensibilities of the audience or the community in which you are stating your opinion then do not expect to be treated with the courtesy as the rest of the community. Meaning don't be so quick to throw the troll flag.

No you are not a student to be taught, you are another member of this community and you are being corrected because they way you act doesn't help the discussion at all. As I stated to you in a DM I don;t like bending my knee in my workplace for sensiblities but I realize the environment I am in and that's part of it. Compromise is not a weakness it is a strength particularly when you are trying to get a message out..........

Again life isn't fair don't expect to act any way you want in someone else's house with out effect on how you are treated. You ask for accomodation (like being allowed to carry on after a ban) but bitch about accomidation as a whole.......................................

Just callin it flatly how it is seen from the outside


I'll write as I please and if it offends your delicate sensibilities, please go find someone who gives a **** because I don't. I got my point across and did so without wearing a mask of political correctness. I didn't call anyone a slur, I didn't swear, I simply made my point. You don't like that I used autistic children as an example? Get over it or write a rule in your Temple ToS that clearly states what I did isn't allowed here.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 28 Aug 2019 02:28 by Phoenix Vidensia.

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28 Aug 2019 02:38 #342561 by Phoenix Vidensia

Kelrax Lorcken wrote: I say this next part not as an attack on you, personally, but as an observation: Does it not strike you as hypocritical to express such sentiments as this thread opened with, while yourself pushing for what would amount to a "safe space", to your benefit by avoiding the people you dislike to interact with and evade criticism from temple members, some of whom partake in a mutual disinterest in getting along?


1. No, it doesn't strike me as hypocritical, since I didn't pursue some type of forum moderator action because "I was so offended" by the person trolling, I simply told them to stop.

2. I am free to avoid people and will do so as I see fit.

3. You need to learn what a "safe space" actually is... it seems.

Kelrax Lorcken wrote: Is it logical to ask for something simply for your own comfort, when you feel others do not deserve the same when having it might actually improve their lives, without affecting your own?


I can ask if I desire but I can also be denied. I'm not asking for a "safe space", I was asking for a place where Guests (like myself) could be burdened by less rules. That's the very opposite of a safe space. Again, go learn what a safe space is.

... Meh ...

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28 Aug 2019 02:42 #342562 by Lukezilla
Replied by Lukezilla on topic Special Needs Society
Kelrax, I sympathize with your story because I had a similar one. I was diagnosed with ADHD as well and instead of putting me on ritalin, I was given a Mountain Dew in the morning before I went to school, which for a second grader was amazing lol but it leveled me out and my grades improved. However, what you said proves my point. It was individuals who made the difference in your life, your parents, a speech therapist and doctors and as you said, you were expected to maintain the same standards as everyone else, as it should be. Society wasn't expected to change around you, you took steps to fit in with society as best you could.

Phoenix, there's no need to continue to be aggressive. As far as I know you haven't broken any rules and I wouldn't want you kicked off anyway. That being said, respect is a two way street, you must give it to receive it and I haven't seen any from you so far. While I won't disrespect you, just know I won't be giving you any either. We have had this discussion without you and it won't require any more input from you either. It seems like the only delicate sensibilities here are yours.




Cad é sinn don te sin nach mbaineann sin dó?
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28 Aug 2019 02:47 #342564 by Deimos
Replied by Deimos on topic Special Needs Society
I don't think anyone is saying you didn't get it across. They're merely pointing out the errors in the logic. For example, you started the thread with, while not against the ToS to my knowledge, language that may be taken the wrong way and thus not listened to at all. Then when people criticize you, you become what you seem to not be a fan of, that being someone who over reacts to said criticism. Do you not see how your post could be misinterpreted and seen as vaguely hostile? Or hypocritical as some have said?

-Dei'mos
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28 Aug 2019 02:49 #342566 by Phoenix Vidensia

Lukezilla wrote: Phoenix, there's no need to continue to be aggressive. As far as I know you haven't broken any rules and I wouldn't want you kicked off anyway. That being said, respect is a two way street, you must give it to receive it and I haven't seen any from you so far. While I won't disrespect you, just know I won't be giving you any either. We have had this discussion without you and it won't require any more input from you either. It seems like the only delicate sensibilities here are yours.


What part of "my respect is earned, not freely given" was unclear?

... Meh ...

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28 Aug 2019 02:51 #342568 by Phoenix Vidensia

Deimos wrote: I don't think anyone is saying you didn't get it across. They're merely pointing out the errors in the logic. For example, you started the thread with, while not against the ToS to my knowledge, language that may be taken the wrong way and thus not listened to at all. Then when people criticize you, you become what you seem to not be a fan of, that being someone who over reacts to said criticism. Do you not see how your post could be misinterpreted and seen as vaguely hostile? Or hypocritical as some have said?


1. What language was that? English?

2. Vaguely hostile? What's your point?

... Meh ...

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28 Aug 2019 02:52 #342569 by Lukezilla
Replied by Lukezilla on topic Special Needs Society
You seem to be operating under the illusion that anyone needs your respect. If you want to be treated with respect then you should start by giving yours. If someone responds with disrespect then they obviously haven't earned respect.




Cad é sinn don te sin nach mbaineann sin dó?
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