The will of the Force

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17 Aug 2019 02:01 #341352 by Yabuturtle
Does anyone believe that when something happens, it was because it was the will of the force? Or perhaps coincidence or both?

Was there something that happened in your life that you felt was the will of the force? Whether it was finding something, someone, spiritual enlightenment or learning a new skill? Have you always felt it was the force guiding you? If so, how and what did it feel like? Do you feel the force really does work in mysterious ways or perhaps is it more clear than we realize?
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17 Aug 2019 02:51 #341357 by Kelrax Lorcken
Yes and no.

I can't really explain it so well, but I think when it happens, you know. Some things are made to happen, and some things just do happen.

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken, Jedi Navigator
May The Force Guide You
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17 Aug 2019 09:13 #341364 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic The will of the Force
I take "the will" of The Force along the lines of it "working for the good of all".. but "Darkness" works to dissolve everything.. so both good and bad happens..

I think the more we're aligned with The Force, the more good we see.. at least that's been my experience.. even with all the negativity I've been around.. though it's hard in a negative environment to stay aligned. It's not impossible..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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17 Aug 2019 10:32 #341366 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic The will of the Force
There is some difficulty justifying believing that any particular occurrence was the will of the Force. For one, what does that mean? One can try and philosophise all night about about it, but at the end of the day all of us have a life to live. If for something to be or have been the "will of the Force" in any meaningful sense, there must be some practical way to identify it as such. If an occurrence that was not the will of the Force and one that was are not distinguishable from each other by any kind of subject-independent test, then the difference between them is practically none in a rather quite literal sense. At that point we may say that either really everything is the will of the Force and mean by it that every occurrence is indeed an occurrence, or that nothing is, meaning exactly the same. But if some things are and others are not, there must be some way to tell the two apart, at least in principle. I know of no such test.

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17 Aug 2019 14:18 #341369 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic The will of the Force
I ascribe "The will of the Force." to a mantra reminding me that things happen outside of my control all the time regardless of how I feel about it.

Life is more fun and easier to handle with mysticism. As long as I remember that I can enjoy it without taking it to far.

rugadd
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17 Aug 2019 14:25 - 17 Aug 2019 14:27 #341370 by Phoenix Vidensia

Uzima Moto wrote: I take "the will" of The Force along the lines of it "working for the good of all".. but "Darkness" works to dissolve everything.. so both good and bad happens..

I think the more we're aligned with The Force, the more good we see.. at least that's been my experience.. even with all the negativity I've been around.. though it's hard in a negative environment to stay aligned. It's not impossible..


Do you recognize The Force as having two sides? The "dark and light", familiarly called... or do you just perceive it as being wholly positive, light, good?

Myself, I do recognize what I see as a current of life which runs through all things. I also recognize a second current, more electric, heavier, slower vibrating. That current disintegrates, pulls things apart. Accessing this is different from accessing the life current in my experience. The harsh current is more destructive, tied to "negative" emotions. The life current is more flowing. That's my experience anyways.

Does either have a will? I don't know. They seem conscious, just not in a sense I can understand yet, so I'm unsure about a "will" in that sense. They do seem to have a destination, an overall climate... a nature.

... Meh ...
Last edit: 17 Aug 2019 14:27 by Phoenix Vidensia.
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17 Aug 2019 16:00 #341371 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic The will of the Force

Yabuturtle wrote: Does anyone believe that when something happens, it was because it was the will of the force? Or perhaps coincidence or both?


“The Force” is usually used as an umbrella term to encompass the whole of reality, known and unknown, whether that is construed as a living deity setting the world in motion, or the universe itself in a panatheistic manner. Or even in a more empirical view, the sum of all known forces and natural phenomena.

In this sense, I see the Force as an ocean. The ocean has its currents (Phoenix mentioned both its creative currents and its destructive currents), and of course its currents would also include the multitude of known natural forces and cause and effect.

In this ocean, we are on a boat, trying to both survive and navigate the currents, and at the same time, our movement creating a small but real effect to the whole of the ocean.

In this sense, I see phenomena unfolding as one of the following alternatives:

1. We get “hit” by the effects of other people’s actions (external forces)
2. We get “hit” by the effects of forces of nature.
3. We get “hit” by the effects of our own actions (classic karma).
4. We get “hit” by the effects of our internal thought and emotional processes (what is known nowadays as incantation, manifesting, NLP, or in general “your focus determines your reality “).

So instead of seeing things unfolding as the intelligent will of a separate sentient being, I see it more as the multiple manifestations of the effects of my own actions, other people’s actions, and natural forces at play, filtered by perception, depending on my focus.

Focus is important here, as it allows to draw the meaningful connections between seemingly separate phenomena, those things that seem like coincidence, fate, or serendipity.

I agree with Gisteron’s assessment that as we cannot measure it or perceive any meaningful effects of a “will of the Force”, it is not useful as a workable concept. Which is why I prefer to work with the more familiar cause and effect, and especially focus.

If your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.

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17 Aug 2019 16:50 #341373 by Carlos.Martinez3

Yabuturtle wrote: Does anyone believe that when something happens, it was because it was the will of the force? Or perhaps coincidence or both?

Was there something that happened in your life that you felt was the will of the force? Whether it was finding something, someone, spiritual enlightenment or learning a new skill? Have you always felt it was the force guiding you? If so, how and what did it feel like? Do you feel the force really does work in mysterious ways or perhaps is it more clear than we realize?


I believe in the Force. I live in the real world. I buy milk. I buy beer. I’ve danced in the streets. I’ve gotten into fist fights. Payed some fines. Met some people. Heard their story’s- seen their ways. Shared time and space with May different walks of life. The Force in between all my daily activity including here, is the part for me that is everything. As I share and learn I grow. This is my own personal practice. Every day it’s different but it’s all apart of my life. To me it’s my life and all life’s attached as human beings as well as many other things. There is a idea called non ado. The art of doing nothing is some times seemed to be actually doing nothing but for me in my path it’s been and resulted in monitoring and noticing - recognition of patterns and paths and parallels more than what keeps most apart. Example : regardless of title - feed another ... give em food. Give em food and time. Watch the growth and change in your heart and theirs. Serve some one else. So the Force lives in a lot of what I touch and see and interact with every day. Others. Not my flow as a main but a part or piece of a whole. I know how to surf and skate. I like to skate more because I don’t live near the surf. Location. Land locked. There’s a moment of slide ... can’t explain it but I can try , like when you jump from a high place , the ground become no longer road but earth your riding. That moment of equal ... you vs the earth ... some days your friends some days your foes some days your the student it is the teacher ... learn of try either way any day - AND you can fall any time on any given day - no one is immune to the random small rock in the road. That’s kinna like the Force for me some days. Anything is possible in a whole lot of directions. But that’s life right ? Real life, ya never really know. My Force - guides me. Some days it’s- I know I’m present for a purpose. It’s obvious to a few , family and friends. Sometimes organization gravitates. Some times it’s the ebb and flow of things. Some days it’s the direction I’ve set , some times it’s just leaving room for what my family calls “sh-way” - like when things sway they need a little more room to move - to sh- way... that’s the word we use. It’s all depends ...

But for the most part, for the direct answer, I go with the flow bro and if ya wanna know I go bro. I’m a force flow rider. Lol - i go with the flow some days. Some days we as a family get lost with each other. Some days we plan a lunch some days we travel to have lunch. Some days friends dictate time - work- family and often it’s just 4, wife son daughter and me. My Force lives in all that. That’s my real life. That’s where I find it. I find it in a smile or a tear, in a sound or a touch. A text or phone call. At the grocery or at the mall. Feeding chickens or on the wii.. (guitar hero!) my Force lives there. It ever flows.
The mystery is the flow of all of us as we meet mesh crash or help one another for me and my practice. Most times I like the Force. It’s the teacher like silence for me. A hard lesson as much a gift as a tool is - we can learn to use or use to help or harm. I meditate on it at times and notice things. Frequent happenings. Kinna why I like the hero’s journey, just a guide to the possibilities, no none can know everything but it’s a start lol ! Hahaha. Any how thanks for the question! May the Force be with ya still!

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17 Aug 2019 17:06 #341375 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic The will of the Force

Phoenix Vidensia wrote: Do you recognize The Force as having two sides? The "dark and light", familiarly called... or do you just perceive it as being wholly positive, light, good?

Myself, I do recognize what I see as a current of life which runs through all things. I also recognize a second current, more electric, heavier, slower vibrating. That current disintegrates, pulls things apart. Accessing this is different from accessing the life current in my experience. The harsh current is more destructive, tied to "negative" emotions. The life current is more flowing. That's my experience anyways.

Does either have a will? I don't know. They seem conscious, just not in a sense I can understand yet, so I'm unsure about a "will" in that sense. They do seem to have a destination, an overall climate... a nature.


Depends on what you mean by "two sides" and positive..

I do see "The Force", or whatever transcendental immanent power is the Cause of creation, as being "light/energy/mind/life" and wholly good in that it works to manifest beings from its own being and provides the means for them to grow.

As far as "two sides" goes, I don't think there's really a difference in essence. Just in action and purpose. "The Force" is One, but works both actively and passively. The "Light", if you will, is empowering like the Sun. Yet, enlightening like the Full Moon. So, in a sense, the Light has both masculine and feminine properties. Darkness is something completely different in essence. I don't see Darkness and the Divine Feminine as the same thing.. though most people do, I think.. but the same way subatomic particles have either negative or positive charges that work in tandem. "The Light" is both positive and negative..

It's like where the Divine Feminine is passive energy, Darkness is the absence of energy itself. It's a different type of negative. One that opposes the manifestation process of "The Force" entirely. Causing what we know as evil, Darkness/Impotence/Chaos/Death.. As we know in science, energy is neither created nor destroyed. So this counteracting influence wouldn't destroy The Force, necessarily. It would just work against the forms it brings forth. Even in death and destruction, though, "The Force" seems to just deconstruct and reconstruct things. Atoms split and cells die through process, not just randomly..

I don't see balance as the equal distribution of good and evil. I definitely don't think I'd want that in my life. Nor do I think it makes a healthy mind. I see balance as harmony within an ecosystem and within one's self. We do what we can to maintain harmony without mostly by maintaining harmony within.. this doesn't necessarily mean to shun our inner shadows. We should transmute them, I think.. ignoring just seems to agitate them lol eventually it lashes out like it was its own entity.. we'd swear we was possessed..

There's two non-canonical christian verses that I think explains what I mean more simply..

(7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which the man eats, and the lion will become man; but cursed is the man whom the lion eats, and the lion will become man." -Gospel of Thomas


(30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him." -Gospel of Thomas

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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20 Aug 2019 15:15 #341503 by _Vergere_
Replied by _Vergere_ on topic The will of the Force
My personal belief is that EVERYTHING that happens is OUR will. We are not separate from the Force, so the Force's will is the same as our will. We are one.

Now, it could be argued that people don't willingly get into a car accident, or get cancer, etc. One might say that this is a reflection of a larger will that we can't know on our physical/limited level of existence. I'm not sure ANYone can know the grander picture behind Free Will/Force's Will when it comes to "bad things happening to good people."

Why these things happen is a question that is deeper than its answer. In the end, nothing happens that isn't supposed to happen.


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

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