Discussion about discussion

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25 Apr 2019 21:13 #337689 by Carlos.Martinez3
Discuss that thread and content maybe in another thread ? Lol

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25 Apr 2019 21:15 #337690 by Kyrin Wyldstar

ZealotX wrote: . But in this scenario the conversation is at the OP's house.



The problem with this scenario is that this is not the OPs house, its OUR house. ALL of ours.

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25 Apr 2019 21:17 #337691 by Carlos.Martinez3

Proteus wrote: I don't feel its unreasonable to back off when someone expresses that they would like a discussion dropped (in a case here, their thread). It simply means that if you would like to continue a branched off topic, you're free to create a new thread that does not involve the OP's original topic or insisting that they continue to participate if they do not want to.

It can also come off insulting when remarks are made about someone wanting to step away because someone else insists on drawing out issues about their position, because "truth".

"What? I thought you were a Jedi? Where are you going? What? You can't play my game? Well I guess you weren't that true to your convictions then were you?" (This is what it comes off as when its brought up).

So the pattern I often see is:
- Someone new shows up and makes a post about a topic/belief/position
- Others reply with dialogue regarding it and then move on.
- One particular person comes along and begins "testing" their view with questions to try to instil critical thinking.
- The OP answers any questions they can to the best of their ability, even with some obvious holes in the answers.
- The "tester" continues prodding the holes to make the OP try to fill them up or somehow confess in one sort or another that they were wrong, but neither happens.
- Others jump in to try to inform the tester of a different way to consider the topic and that testing it isn't really going to go anywhere.
- The tester disagrees and continues poking and prodding.
- A debate about some nit-picked part of a hole breaks out between the tester and 1 - 2 others regarding it.
- The OP, reading the debate, begins feeling their topic is becoming responsible for something bad breaking out on the forums, resulting in them wanting it closed.
- The tester insists that the thread stay open because "freedom of speech" and still continues poking and prodding and debating
- Nitpick debating continues and escalates even more to the point that..
- The thread becomes locked by a mod
- Another thread is either created or responded to with the tester complaining about "censorship", or "freedom of speech", etc etc.

Rinse and repeat.

"But where are you going? I thought you were a real Jedi? I thought you were serious about your beliefs?? Well... I guess not..."

This is what, at least, I tend to see on a regular basis, as one person after another either leaves the temple, or stays but hardly ever again wishes to participate in thread discussions. Because that one person wanted to force a square into a round hole, either not realizing it was a round hole, or not caring because "truth".

Others here try to explain this, in as many ways as I can think anyone can, but when someone is stubborn enough about their personal mission, it just doesn't seem to register I guess? But Idk, because I'm just me, and I can only see from my perspective which is pretty ignorant of much else that must be going on from others' points of view.



This type of discussion happens often here. Some times by the same few. What is it then? If it results in the same thing? Do we stop it or de we allow it ? Do we educate and encourage others to ... do ... what ? If it happens often then it does seem one sided hu?

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25 Apr 2019 21:19 #337692 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Proteus wrote: . It does follow the continued formula pointed out in my post above. That's all I know for sure.



No it doesn't. You fail to take into account intent and the posters themselves. Once again you assume WAY to much and make unfounded accusations of future events there is no evidence for. Its minority report mentality. You have no grounds to make such a claim just as you have no grounds to make the claim that the conversation would have gone differently if one of the posters would not have been a "guest". Your idea of Jedi equality is wack.

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25 Apr 2019 21:22 #337693 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Discussion about discussion

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ZealotX wrote: . But in this scenario the conversation is at the OP's house.



The problem with this scenario is that this is not the OPs house, its OUR house. ALL of ours.


That's a problem if you see it that way. The website is "our house". My personal journals are not. Everyone does not have access to all content on the website. Access is restricted. I don't own the bank but I do expect my account to be private. It's not shared with other customers. One should have a reasonable expectation of certain things. Being the OP doesn't entitle you to say who gets to come to your thread. However, it should entitle you to say what direction your thread goes in because it's YOUR thread. The OP should be able to steer the conversation or request for it to be locked. Period. If not you're asking for problems.
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25 Apr 2019 21:25 #337694 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Discussion about discussion

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Proteus wrote: . It does follow the continued formula pointed out in my post above. That's all I know for sure.



No it doesn't. You fail to take into account intent and the posters themselves. Once again you assume WAY to much and make unfounded accusations of future events there is no evidence for. Its minority report mentality. You have no grounds to make such a claim just as you have no grounds to make the claim that the conversation would have gone differently if one of the posters would not have been a "guest". Your idea of Jedi equality is wack.


This response is not only pure and direct hypocricy on every point, but it's also perfectly representing exactly what the pattern lays out. You're upholding my point while trying to deny it.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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25 Apr 2019 21:27 - 25 Apr 2019 21:32 #337695 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Discussion about discussion
Your money is shared with other customers, and your accounts are not private.

Additionally the open discussions forum is our equivalent of an outdoor public space. You don't have a house at totjo, you have no keys. We do have some restricted access areas, based on rank, based on topic, and interests. The open discussion forum is for open discussions...

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
Last edit: 25 Apr 2019 21:32 by ren.
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25 Apr 2019 21:32 #337696 by Kyrin Wyldstar

ZealotX wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ZealotX wrote: . But in this scenario the conversation is at the OP's house.



The problem with this scenario is that this is not the OPs house, its OUR house. ALL of ours.


That's a problem if you see it that way. The website is "our house". My personal journals are not. Everyone does not have access to all content on the website. Access is restricted. I don't own the bank but I do expect my account to be private. It's not shared with other customers. One should have a reasonable expectation of certain things. Being the OP doesn't entitle you to say who gets to come to your thread. However, it should entitle you to say what direction your thread goes in because it's YOUR thread. The OP should be able to steer the conversation or request for it to be locked. Period. If not you're asking for problems.



I agree with everything you have said here except for the last thing. If the OP wants the thread to go in a direction then its his responsibility to direct it, not abandon it and then just expect it to move they way he wants. And journal threads are respected because there are rules to protect them, parts of the board are private for the same reason. An open thread in an open forum has different rules and thats why they progress as they do, according to anyones desire. Thats the rule. Equal access for all. I would never expect a thread I start would be dictated by me alone as to who could post or what could be posted in. That equates to censorship. To use a version of your real life examples, would you want college campuses to sensor free speech or opposing speakers just because the campus administration did not agree with their thoughts?

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

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25 Apr 2019 21:34 #337697 by Carlos.Martinez3
Y’all are still taking about that thread ? On another thread ? Hmm

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25 Apr 2019 21:47 #337698 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Discussion about discussion

ren wrote: Your money is shared with other customers, and your accounts are not private.

Additionally the open discussions forum is our equivalent of an outdoor public space. You don't have a house at totjo, you have no keys. We do have some restricted access areas, based on rank, based on topic, and interests. The open discussion forum is for open discussions...


there's a difference between open access and open to all topics. One thing doesn't necessarily mean the other. Please consider adding a sticky to the open discussion forum that plainly states what posters should expect. Because what you mean by "open discussion" is not shared by all. And that's fine, but there should be a warning if that's the case.

And as far as money shared... other customers of my bank don't get to see my account and laugh at how much money I don't have. They can't spend it either.

Journals are like this. There is a notice that gives an expectation of some level of privacy, not that people can't see and read your journals... but that they should not jump in and debate the content of your journals unless you, the OP, say otherwise. It is my opinion that every OP should have some reasonable amount of control when it comes to a thread they started. And if it gets out of control (because they don't have mod powers) they should be able to request to have it locked.
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