My belief system

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: There is a world of difference in belief in self as confidence and stealing the narrative of a made up alternate world history and calling if your own.

The belief in self need not be superficial.... it can include all manner of depth of imagined circumstance. Sports meditation involves visualizing conduct in high detail, as a means to train and motivate oneself. It's the same thing with spiritual systems, they serve as frameworks to anchor thought and action in tested paradigms for net benefit. So that issue aside, have you asked if he is the author of the article you linked? Because he did call it an 'article' in the OP.... and different people speak differently, and the wording could be taken to mean personal use and personal alignment with, rather then creation of. It's usually safer to ask then assume, unless I missed where it was stated as such.

Which goes back to my points, a personal spiritual belief system need not be entirely anchored in reality for it to have benefit in application to reality, calling something a belief is not the same as saying something is true, and calling something 'mine' does not automatically mean a person is saying it is their creation.

And in regards to origins of 'Jedi', I think that is less important what Lucas derived it from then what it can mean to someone in practise. For instance I like the chinese 極代 which google translates as 'Extreme generation' and is pronounced Jí dài

Tellahane wrote: When someone is dying literally in your arms and there is nothing that can be done about it, what they believe in does not matter. What matters is that they believe...

Why? And believe what? This seems a nonsensical statement. What if they are dying in your arms screaming because they believe they are going to hell to be tortured for the rest of eternity because they are a horrible person?

Why? And believe what? This seems a nonsensical statement. What if they are dying in your arms screaming because they believe they are going to hell to be tortured for the rest of eternity because they are a horrible person?

um... I've never heard of this happening. One of the reasons is because even a horrible person, if they believe, can make a "deathbed confession" and are generally likened to the thief on the cross. Do I think this is BS? Yes... because I'm more logical like you and Gisteron. However, belief helps people in different ways to deal with the parts of life and death that they don't know or understand. And usually if a person is so horrible that they accept damnation instead of confessing and asking for forgiveness then they're not the type to be screaming about it in the end.

After my dad passed, my mother pretty much retreated into her faith because it promised to reunite them in heaven. It annoys me that she wants to involve me or my children in it but as something that is "for her" if it helps comfort her and gives her peace, who am I to convince her otherwise? That's what she chooses. Now if she was dancing with poisonous snakes or something like that then yeah... at that point the belief wouldn't be worth the danger. But being wrong about something you profess to believe in (not to know) isn't criminal or automatically harmful. And if it is more help than harm then it is a net positive.

ZealotX wrote:

Why? And believe what? This seems a nonsensical statement. What if they are dying in your arms screaming because they believe they are going to hell to be tortured for the rest of eternity because they are a horrible person?

um... I've never heard of this happening. One of the reasons is because even a horrible person, if they believe, can make a "deathbed confession" and are generally likened to the thief on the cross. Do I think this is BS? Yes... because I'm more logical like you and Gisteron. However, belief helps people in different ways to deal with the parts of life and death that they don't know or understand. And usually if a person is so horrible that they accept damnation instead of confessing and asking for forgiveness then they're not the type to be screaming about it in the end.

After my dad passed, my mother pretty much retreated into her faith because it promised to reunite them in heaven. It annoys me that she wants to involve me or my children in it but as something that is "for her" if it helps comfort her and gives her peace, who am I to convince her otherwise? That's what she chooses. Now if she was dancing with poisonous snakes or something like that then yeah... at that point the belief wouldn't be worth the danger. But being wrong about something you profess to believe in (not to know) isn't criminal or automatically harmful. And if it is more help than harm then it is a net positive.

By your logic is seems completely acceptable that the Radical Muslims that found the greatest of peace and believed in the greatest of rewards in heaven for their act were perfectly reasonable in flying jumbo jets into buildings. If the comfort is false its false, no matter how much you might think it beneficial, its still a lie.

If you do a bit of research the djedi of Egypt where preists who wore cloaks and help guard the pharaoh’s. I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force.
I’m not telling any of you to believe in what is written. As this is my belief system. I class myself as a Jedi consular, who philosophies on the force and it’s real origins or fictional origins. I do not close my eyes to anyone’s beliefs or faiths as the more knowledge one has the greater understanding of others one gets. That is why I joined the Jedi temple, to gain a understanding of others who also believe in the force.

Should I be sad that you haven't answered my question Lenny C?
How does your belief translate to your practice?

Gisteron wrote: Call me narrow-minded, whoever must, but I just can't bring myself to feel much about any sort of spirituality that requires the practitioner to make up nonsense or believe it. There is plenty inspiring and beautiful and in their own way transcendent things about the world itself. And I'm not saying that in any sense of us having enough to not need more. No, I'm making a much stronger claim. I say I have yet to hear a fantasy that even came close in magnificence to what nature offers. Desperately weaving magical stories to feel like having a special place in the universe is no sign of creativity or spirituality, as much as, if anything, of a lack of both! At my most generous I can see Spirit Science having no ill motive and just innocently lying to themselves and spreading those lies to their audience. Why anyone might be better off with it than without I'm not sure and I can't begrudge those who already do a fantastic job at debunking this nonsense in the hopes that fewer end up falling for it in the end.

And how is this different from most/all religions? How many of them do we attempt to thwart or debunk?

Oh come on now, are you saying English literature is to any extent about making up nonsense and then believing it? Far be it from me to defend the subject, but this surely must be too harsh.
Also, assuming that anybody can do any such thing as to choose to believe anything, I'm still not fully convinced, in light of the entire treatise being a straight copy of a decade-old article, that this is actually what anybody here believes. I'm by no means one to put the gloves on over things people are emotionally invested in for poor reason or for none at all, but when genuine-ness is called into question this hard, how can we even make that appeal still?

math = genuine-ness
literature = art

logically, there is no argument I'm trying to make because logically I agree with you. However, that is the approach of my left brain. My right brain, being the creative, tells me to let people dream. Art can be 100% accurate or it can be a distortion of reality. It is interpreted. So the VALUE it has depends on the eye of the beholder. That's not something that you or I can independently assess because it's personal. The OP didn't say "here are the facts". He said "my belief system". The word belief itself is the main indicator that it is not presented as knowledge or factual information. Beliefs cannot necessarily be proven. If they could they would quickly either become knowledge or discarded as error. Beliefs allow us to hold ideas in our hands and play with them long enough to extract value. That value... that meaning... is defined in the analysis. When he analyzes this information and he's connecting the dots, the dots form a pattern of significance to him. That's what matters. It's the same as reading a fable that has a moral to it. Enjoy the fable. Don't toss it because parts of it are fantasy. Even those parts have value.

I'm here because of Star Wars. I'm fully aware of the fictional nature of the SW universe. I appreciate that it isn't presented as any other but. However, do I believe there is a force? Yeah. Does my belief have to mach up to Lucas's imagination? No. Does "Jedi" come from Egypt? No. Does it have to? No. The rules of scientific discovery and exploration do not apply to belief systems. If they did belief systems would not exist. And we would not have Star Wars or Jedi. And we wouldn't be here discussing anything because that intrinsic value... of something within the story (spirit), within the characters, within the nature of the thing... would be lost.

My belief system helps with coping with my mental health issues. Without it I would not be strong enough to be able to live a so called normal life.
I’m not telling anyone to believe I’m what I believe. Everyone has a individual life and beliefs, some are christian, some Muslim and some the force. If it helps in life by what you believe, then you have the right to say this is my belief system that gets me through everyday life.

Lenny C wrote: If you do a bit of research the djedi of Egypt where preists who wore cloaks and help guard the pharaoh’s. I even found in early Israel and some Arab states had believers in the Farr, which literally translates to the force.
I’m not telling any of you to believe in what is written. As this is my belief system. I class myself as a Jedi consular, who philosophies on the force and it’s real origins or fictional origins. I do not close my eyes to anyone’s beliefs or faiths as the more knowledge one has the greater understanding of others one gets. That is why I joined the Jedi temple, to gain a understanding of others who also believe in the force.

I appreciate you and what you have shared.

While I do not believe the force is a sentient entity the way that the Hebrew God is, I do accept the logic that Paul used when he said that his God was called by other names. And the titles used for God didn't really matter and were different in different languages and cultures. So even if there's no direct linkage between Djedi and SW's "Jedi" I encourage you to keep doing what you're doing because who knows? Who knows how ancient knowledge could have survived and lived on to inspire others while still maintaining some sense of itself and some consistency, masking itself in different cultures and societies.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

ZealotX wrote:

Why? And believe what? This seems a nonsensical statement. What if they are dying in your arms screaming because they believe they are going to hell to be tortured for the rest of eternity because they are a horrible person?

um... I've never heard of this happening. One of the reasons is because even a horrible person, if they believe, can make a "deathbed confession" and are generally likened to the thief on the cross. Do I think this is BS? Yes... because I'm more logical like you and Gisteron. However, belief helps people in different ways to deal with the parts of life and death that they don't know or understand. And usually if a person is so horrible that they accept damnation instead of confessing and asking for forgiveness then they're not the type to be screaming about it in the end.

After my dad passed, my mother pretty much retreated into her faith because it promised to reunite them in heaven. It annoys me that she wants to involve me or my children in it but as something that is "for her" if it helps comfort her and gives her peace, who am I to convince her otherwise? That's what she chooses. Now if she was dancing with poisonous snakes or something like that then yeah... at that point the belief wouldn't be worth the danger. But being wrong about something you profess to believe in (not to know) isn't criminal or automatically harmful. And if it is more help than harm then it is a net positive.

By your logic is seems completely acceptable that the Radical Muslims that found the greatest of peace and believed in the greatest of rewards in heaven for their act were perfectly reasonable in flying jumbo jets into buildings. If the comfort is false its false, no matter how much you might think it beneficial, its still a lie.

sorry, but did you not read what I said?

Now if she was dancing with poisonous snakes or something like that then yeah... at that point the belief wouldn't be worth the danger. But being wrong about something you profess to believe in (not to know) isn't criminal or automatically harmful. And if it is more help than harm then it is a net positive.

so my logic doesn't include radical islam which is different from non-radical Islam. BOTH of them include errors, lies, deceits, etc.

...just like Judaism. (How many people did Moses kill?)

The truth is that Muslims would have to kill millions more people just to catch up to the loss of life caused intentionally by Christianity during the Crusades and Inquisitions.

But we accept those who practice Christianity within Jediism. The OP isn't claiming any such harmful narrative. He isn't claiming the Force is talking to him through the ancient Djedi, telling him that the infidels must die. So there's no need to equate the two very different things.

Every religion can claim some kind of history. However, that account of history isn't perfect and cannot be completely proven. Even in SW there is the canon and the non-canon EU. And in the canon and EU there are stories of lost religion and people like Han Solo who doubt the existence of the Force or even the Jedi. So we can talk about the Force, light sabers, whatever we want to, as long as we're not suggesting to people what they have to believe or pass off our own beliefs as truth.

Lenny C wrote: My belief system helps with coping with my mental health issues. Without it I would not be strong enough to be able to live a so called normal life.
I’m not telling anyone to believe I’m what I believe. Everyone has a individual life and beliefs, some are christian, some Muslim and some the force. If it helps in life by what you believe, then you have the right to say this is my belief system that gets me through everyday life.

Yes
As a human beings we are born into things like location and often religion. Two of a few things we don’t have control of at birth over. As we grow and learn we can choose to stay and learn or seek. I thank you again and remind others - we can choose our own faith from where ever and even how ever. I myself, often find strength and peace in people who are no longer here and some “make believe “ characters like Icarus and Hercules Zeus Porthos Peter Pan Frodo Horton the Elephant ... the list goes on and on and on.... you get the point. Sometimes finding what we need from a story told by fire or from a book or from one another is what being human can be... glad to see you here and I hope if you ever feel the need - reach out. My inbox is always open. May the Force be with you

Lenny C wrote: If you do a bit of research the djedi of Egypt where preists who wore cloaks and help guard the pharaoh’s.

You keep asserting this but have yet to provide one reliable source to back this up. What is your source material for this claim? Is it the article that you apparently cut and pasted from the internet?

ZealotX wrote: sorry, but did you not read what I said?

Now if she was dancing with poisonous snakes or something like that then yeah... at that point the belief wouldn't be worth the danger. But being wrong about something you profess to believe in (not to know) isn't criminal or automatically harmful. And if it is more help than harm then it is a net positive.

so my logic doesn't include radical islam which is different from non-radical Islam. BOTH of them include errors, lies, deceits, etc.

...just like Judaism. (How many people did Moses kill?)

The truth is that Muslims would have to kill millions more people just to catch up to the loss of life caused intentionally by Christianity during the Crusades and Inquisitions.

But we accept those who practice Christianity within Jediism. The OP isn't claiming any such harmful narrative. He isn't claiming the Force is talking to him through the ancient Djedi, telling him that the infidels must die. So there's no need to equate the two very different things.

Every religion can claim some kind of history. However, that account of history isn't perfect and cannot be completely proven. Even in SW there is the canon and the non-canon EU. And in the canon and EU there are stories of lost religion and people like Han Solo who doubt the existence of the Force or even the Jedi. So we can talk about the Force, light sabers, whatever we want to, as long as we're not suggesting to people what they have to believe or pass off our own beliefs as truth.

Yes I read what you wrote and I disagree with it. What is harmful? How do you define it? Harmful is obviously flying a plane into a building full of people, but isn't it just as harmful to live in fear of eternal torture, or to live a life of delusion based on faith? How many of those misplaced beliefs turned into something bad? Science says that race is a social construct only, but faith says that we are black and white and Arab and Jewish. Faith says that women are inferior to men and that Christians are infidels. Christians say that Muslims are heretics and both kill each other by the thousands over the centuries to prove their point and their faith in their God. Christians call their bible infallible but that same bible endorses slavery and genocide. Who is to say that one day Christians might decide they need to return to a more pure interpretation of the bible and embrace those concepts. The Muslims have and as a result lost an unquantifiable amount of knowledge. Dont you think its better to get rid of false belief than let it fester in the darkness waiting to damage the psyche or worse yet maim and kill and enslave and let superstition reign over knowledge?

http://www.djedet.com/ladyjedi.php
Some information can be found here.
Some of you seem to be trying to debunk what I believe, but have retaliated by commenting or even asking your belief or faith. This thread was just about a belief system I have ,that helps me day to day. If it is fictional then so be it. But some believe in merlin and King Arthur, some believe in books. Some make there own religions. But saying your wrong to believe in a certain way is wrong. We all have free will and if you believe in something that harms no one then what harm can be from a there faith.
Faith is asking a certain god, power or even chi for help when needed. So believing in something that gives comfort in every day life. Who has the right to mock that persons beliefs.

Lenny C wrote: http://www.djedet.com/ladyjedi.php
Some information can be found here.
Some of you seem to be trying to debunk what I believe, but have retaliated by commenting or even asking your belief or faith. This thread was just about a belief system I have ,that helps me day to day. If it is fictional then so be it. But some believe in merlin and King Arthur, some believe in books. Some make there own religions. But saying your wrong to believe in a certain way is wrong. We all have free will and if you believe in something that harms no one then what harm can be from a there faith.
Faith is asking a certain god, power or even chi for help when needed. So believing in something that gives comfort in every day life. Who has the right to mock that persons beliefs.

yes I have seen that page and it is hardly a reliable source. It is a web hosting site that has a side text and the main entry you cite is actually annotated with an unknown source. Faith is not asking a divine entity for help, it is actually just an unreliable means to discern truth. Using faith we can makeup anything and it is unfalsifiable. I could claim that my God gave me a divine decree through faith to slaughter puppies just as easily as you making the claim about this false history. So given this disparity in belief how can we ever come to a common ground to discuss anything if we cant base our discussions on something more solid than faith and belief? You post this here as a belief system but there is no grounds to discuss it outside of a fantasy context. It does not even have any innate wisdom in which to get our teeth into. Besides that you still have not answered the question as to whether you copied and pasted this from the internet?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Yes I read what you wrote and I disagree with it. What is harmful? How do you define it? Harmful is obviously flying a plane into a building full of people, but isn't it just as harmful to live in fear of eternal torture, or to live a life of delusion based on faith? How many of those misplaced beliefs turned into something bad? Science says that race is a social construct only, but faith says that we are black and white and Arab and Jewish. Faith says that women are inferior to men and that Christians are infidels. Christians say that Muslims are heretics and both kill each other by the thousands over the centuries to prove their point. Christians call their bible infallible but that same bible enforces slavery and genocide. Who is to day that one day Christians might decide they need to return to a more pure interpretation of the bible and embrace those concepts. Don't you think its better to get rid of false belief than let it fester in the darkness waiting to damage the psyche or worse yet maim and kill and enslave?

Right, so if flying a plane into a building is harmful the obviously it becomes something worth opposing (in my view). And I used my mother as an example for a reason; to keep my cold hard logic in check as well as to keep a more human face on belief. Please consider "The Matrix" and how difficult it was to wake older minds. Consider that beliefs are kind of like mental programs that people accept. She's an elderly widow. She's part of the Matrix but she's not an agent and she's not about to carry out the next purge. It was her faith that helped her deal with the emotional catastrophic loss of her husband, not science, not strict adherence to the truth. Her faith made her feel better and feelings matter. Additionally, as a program you cannot assume that religion will affect each person the same way. In my experience it absolutely depends on the character of the believer, what they will put into and take out of their faith. It's just like seeing different things in the clouds or getting a different feel for a painting. There is no one way that humans must approach life or get through life's challenges. If there was, someone else would have decided that it was not Jediism.

The key in what you said is "misplaced beliefs", but "turning into something bad" betrays your fear and fear leads to the dark side. Why? Because if we react to fear by attacking that which we're afraid of, then maybe we're actually helping what we fear come to pass or at least manifest in some way. What if Lenny had such a bad experience being "corrected" by Jedi that it soured him on the whole site and all the positive people he could have interacted with? We are all, part of his belief system and we can either be harmful elements and destructive or we can be positive and supportive. What we're really afraid of is people. The ideas that some religions advance are mainly ideas that manipulate people to do something (like fork over 10% of their income). However, all religions are not equal and aren't not all designed to benefit a certain class of "chosen" people.

And come on... we are the "temple of the Jedi Order". Is there anyone that can pretend that our name doesn't come from the fictional realm? So to judge "other fiction" is simply to say that I sanction this fiction over here but not that fiction over there. The only words we're not borrowing from other religions linked to fairy tales and fantasy are the words "of" and "the".

When it comes to slavery and racism, trust me, I hear you. But we can't win by going to war with every religion. You can't simply rid someone of their beliefs through logic. I've tried. At some point thesis and antithesis must become synthesis. If a person is pulling things from history and the SW universe and synthesizing them into something positive then what's the problem? Should no one be inspired by Star Wars because its not a true story? The religions that are dangerous aren't so because they have bad research. They're dangerous because one or more humans claimed to do bad things because God told them to. THAT... is 100% of the problem. Many ancient cultures used gods and goddess to represent elements of nature but they didn't think they were real or that they were telling them to kill each other. I understand where you're coming from but I think you're seeing the problem too broadly.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So given this disparity in belief how can we ever come to a common ground to discuss anything if we cant base our discussions on something more solid than faith and belief? You post this here as a belief system but there is no grounds to discuss it outside of a fantasy context. It does not even have any innate wisdom in which to get our teeth into. Besides that you still have not answered the question as to whether you copied and pasted this from the internet?

I find this so ironic because what brought us all together to this site isn't something we all know to be true and historically accurate but rather the opposite. It was something imagined, made up, something between science fiction and fantasy. And the innate wisdom doesn't necessarily come from the history or backstory of a religion but rather how the teachings represented are applied to life. But I would imagine that his wisdom is drawn from the same source that mine is (Jedi philosophy) which I think is kinda the point of the whole site. In piecing together this history, Lenny is simply adding, for his own benefit, a backstory. That's no different to me than how I think about Anakin, Luke, and Yoda. They don't have to be real to learn from them. And they certain aren't corroborated by a credible source.

Yes I copied and pasted. But I believed in what was written from an early age. So this was the simplest way of saying what I believe in. If you read in introduction forum it has a small biography for myself. Basically i was researching when I was young and was reading greek mythology and that type of books. Including ancient Egypt, but when I was in hospital I was with a lady from Egypt and we where talking about faith. I told here mine when she mentioned djedi. So since then I have researched djedi. But even if all my research is false it is still a belief system.

Kyrin Wyldstar Is there a problem with copying the easiest simplest version I could find and copying it on what I believe. Its like your mindset is hell bent on proving its false ,you mention other religions as false. So do you look at life as real is real and has to be fact or do look at life open minded.

Kyrin sorry for being a bit abrupt with you. Your belief and faith is a personal one. As is mine . but with communication we can agree we both believe in the force as do others on this website. Some people probably have there own version of there force beliefs.