"Not Serious but Sincere" - or The Romanticisation of Jediism

Proteus wrote: I'm wondering what went through your head when reading the thread title.

What does that phrase and term mean to you?

Does romaticizing Jediism affect one's approach to it? Can romanticisation make one more serious than sincere?

To me serious is the application of resources as effort being more then sufficient to meet the expected need. The concept of 'application of resources' to me is the mapping of accurate relations between concepts, ie truth aka accuracy in depth. So there is no negativity associated to it AFAIK despite it being potentially misplaced and a wasted effort, or being inappropriate timed.

Sincere is just a statement about intent to be 'not misleading'.

So 'not serious but sincere' to me would be a statement of truth about something superficial.

And so I'd have to say a sincere reflection on Jediism that romanticizes it - would be to imply both a serious understanding and close relationship with, aka an appearance of wisdom and experience.

If its true then it might be (wisdom), but if its false then its probably not... so the application of that really starts to talk about the person saying it more then anything else IMO. As the process could be said to make a lot of assumptions in the leap from superficial context to 'surity from depth', so its best to use softening language IMO so to avoid appearing like one is trying to lecture as if there is only their way or the wrong way, and so instead I take the approach to exercise it as personal growth or exploration of concepts rather then truth. The other option though is to use it to reinforce an appearance of wisdom regardless of the risk of looking like a tool for not knowing what one is talking about it and 'romanticizing the stone', so to speak

So by my definitions above, and my application above, I would not be surprised if I appeared serious about it... but that is why I'm here because my circumstances allow me to be at this time and I justify the effort for my own reasons. The results are of course up for debate :silly:

First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

You can in fact laugh at things. I am the type who laughs at funerals, why? Because, I would rather spend my time laughing about the good times than crying over the coffin of my friend. Being at the funeral is serious, laughing over the good memories is sincere about the loss

Romanticism is found every where, Manu touched on a good point, I think that is an important way to look at it and one I have experienced myself to great determent. I also want to present this. Every single thing you do, you have undoubtedly romanticized in your own head. If you don't then you have no expectations, no goals, no outcomes or reasons to act. Think about that for a second. Even while writing this I am romanticizing my own writing hoping that it comes off in the voice that few here have actually heard in real life. The voice that makes me......well me.

If romanticism helps yourself growth than let it, if it begins to impede you in most cases others will notice and begin to mention it to you, take heed in those cases, at least consider what is said.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

I tend to use 'embodiment of a model' more then 'romanticizing an idea(l)'. For me I tend to define romanticizing as a type of embodiment which just sees the positives, a bit of a fairy tale. Putting lipstick on a pig sort of thing
It's fun till the damn pig eats all your make up.... but its a good way to motivate. It sounds like a very visual concept. I wonder if sound can be romanticized!?

Kobos wrote: First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

Does that mean that you have romanticised it so much that it no longer serves a practical function in reality? I think it is fine to laugh at a funeral but we also must cry or that emotion gets buried and turns to something bad. So how can you tell if your romanticism is functioning to your advantage or your detriment? When one becomes lost in delusion they are often times convinced they are acting for the greater good when objectively speaking they are really not.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Kobos wrote: First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

Does that mean that you have romanticized it so much that it no longer serves a practical function in reality?.

Please keep in mind that these are only responses that apply from a personal perspective. This was a light sarcastic attempt at being facetious but a valid question as applies in general. I would say this is more a product of looking at something as myths and then applying the real to it. The ideals set in this myth (the cinematic Jedi), are still of very important part of the function of my reality. For example, the Bushido code is an interesting set of guidelines to live one's life by. However, the unromantic samurai was not at all an example of the importance of the code to me. Because, in reality they were kind of douches, in a class system, designed to keep power in the hands of few. So, does wearing the cloak make me any more Jedi than anyone else? No, not really it's a way of me showing I believe in a certain set of teachings and a way to have fun on occasion.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think it is fine to laugh at a funeral but we also must cry or that emotion gets buried and turns to something bad.

I agree! I suppose, I just personally see the time of a funeral one to move on from grief. One should grieve loss in the way they see fit. That one is just mine.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So how can you tell if your romanticism is functioning to your advantage or your detriment? When one becomes lost in delusion they are often times convinced they are acting for the greater good when objectively speaking they are really not..

So, this is a nice meaty question. Thank you Kyrin. First part of understanding your own disillusionment is understanding that the definition of normality is fluid(it is a given metric by the majority of society). IMHO one's romanticism can be gauged on a scale of good to bad through situational awareness and self reflection. If one can (as close to objectively as possible) look at their actions and show that the self nor community determent is not a debilitating/harmful level, that's a good start. The second part, of this is being open and willing to communicate. It is important to realize that other's perspectives are often a decent gauge of objectivity, when taken with a grain of salt. The final part to cracking the egg here is understanding that one's "greater good" is always (I mean always) skewed by personal perspective. Accepting that one can in fact be delusional is vital in this equation (humility). Being able to take others input on their greater good, openly listening (without presumption of insult to an individuals own world perspective) and what in reality exists are often going to be off kilter with the "normality" of majority opinion. It takes a certain level of personal reflection (not personal affirmation, which many confuse with personal reflection) and inventory of one's actions to really dig in and see when your own ideology has stopped fitting the actual definition "greater good".

Much Obliged for the questions!

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

What if, "Romanticisation of Jediism" referred not only to literal interpretation of being a Jedi, but also one's own unique take on it? Not so much that one might have one but rather how unyieldingly insistant one clings onto it as their primary way of personally validating themselves about being a Jedi, that any or at least most other approaches one sees, suddenly seem objectively incorrect to them?

When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

Rosalyn J wrote: That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

The serious counterpart is real education and real training.

If you want to be a warrior, join the military- they really go to war.
If you want to be able to fight, join a fight gym- they really fight.
If you want to be a healer, try medical school, or an EMT/S program, or become a nurse- they really heal people.

That sort of thing.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

The serious counterpart is real education and real training.

If you want to be a warrior, join the military- they really go to war.
If you want to be able to fight, join a fight gym- they really fight.
If you want to be a healer, try medical school, or an EMT/S program, or become a nurse- they really heal people.

That sort of thing.

I see. Thanks

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

This has always been what baffles me about Jediism. A religion whose primary focus is not religion. It's strange to say the least. Instead of spiritual pursuit of the force, the primary mission is service. But that service is carried out in fantastical ways through role play and not actual pursuit of real service. It's why jediism fails as a church and is viewed by outsiders as a less than serious spirituality. If the mission is spiritual then focus on the lore as a means to explore the philosophy. If the mission is physical then get out our your heads and leave the lore and philosophy out of it. Instead organize and support the pursuit of real life means to accomplish the mission.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

This has always been what baffles me about Jediism. A religion whose primary focus is not religion. It's strange to say the least. Instead of spiritual pursuit of the force, the primary mission is service. But that service is carried out in fantastical ways through role play and not actual pursuit of real service. It's why jediism fails as a church and is viewed by outsiders as a less than serious spirituality. If the mission is spiritual then focus on the lore as a means to explore the philosophy. If the mission is physical then get out our your heads and leave the lore and philosophy out of it. Instead organize and support the pursuit of real life means to accomplish the mission.

In my 7 years, I have found it is possible to do both

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

This has always been what baffles me about Jediism. A religion whose primary focus is not religion. It's strange to say the least. Instead of spiritual pursuit of the force, the primary mission is service. But that service is carried out in fantastical ways through role play and not actual pursuit of real service. It's why jediism fails as a church and is viewed by outsiders as a less than serious spirituality. If the mission is spiritual then focus on the lore as a means to explore the philosophy. If the mission is physical then get out our your heads and leave the lore and philosophy out of it. Instead organize and support the pursuit of real life means to accomplish the mission.

May I ask where and who you have seen this ? In my practice it is done. Are you just assuming all Jeddist are the same and all Jedi ism im general is fake ? That seems to be a pretty blanket statement. Some it’s not a religion. Some it is and even some it’s more a mantra. So many different levels and possibilities and actual practices - failure and what you call fake - for some isn’t. What baffles me is often how people and generally others who don’t agree with things just say well they are wrong. Not arguing , being honest. What makes you say or see that way ? Or is it just another what if type of things? I do want to understand . Where and who has Jedi ism failed in your opinion? I coulda kept a list and others can add their names to success as well as a failure. Is it always about the failure of things or just about how it’s failed you or vice versus or how you personally haven’t had any success with it ? It’s not wrong if it didn’t work for you - just not for you. These are the questions self reflective answer and self paced learning does - it makes it hard to blame a book for me not understanding it. I can blame the publisher and artist and author or ... I can just say it’s not for me and find another book to read or even as in life... continue or wait till I do or toss it or even ask around ...

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

This has always been what baffles me about Jediism. A religion whose primary focus is not religion. It's strange to say the least. Instead of spiritual pursuit of the force, the primary mission is service. But that service is carried out in fantastical ways through role play and not actual pursuit of real service. It's why jediism fails as a church and is viewed by outsiders as a less than serious spirituality. If the mission is spiritual then focus on the lore as a means to explore the philosophy. If the mission is physical then get out our your heads and leave the lore and philosophy out of it. Instead organize and support the pursuit of real life means to accomplish the mission.

So, you are telling me that a religion more or less inspired by a sci-fi movie with strong metaphysical leanings (including energy manipulation and extra sensory perception), attracts people who believe in energy manipulation and extra sensory perception, and you are baffled by that?

I think the problem lies in people expecting “magic” to solve their problems, and thus they use it as a way to escape reality (if only I could astral project, I will be able to do “x” so much better). So, people say they want to heal, but don’t bother learning about conventional medicine FIRST and then using alternate methods as a complement to that.

By the way, “service” might be seen as the natural conclusion to the belief system, and thus is not separate from “religion” as you seem to claim.

I seem to find my thoughts going back to what Goken posted on page 1.

Goken wrote: It makes me think of two quotes.

"Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world" - Miyamoto Musashi

"You can't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive." - Ryan Reynolds in Van Wilder

To me people who take something too seriously fail to see the flaws in it, and everything has flaws. Or they only see the flaws, and everything has beauty too.

When I posted this thread, I had my own idea about it too. I just wanted to set it down for a bit and listen to you guys about it first.

My thoughts were a bit more beyond just the surface level of the facade that is going on with what is described by many of you here, and goes a bit more meta. Even people who aren't, for example, larping, who seem to have a difficult time communicating with others, getting along, getting banned, rage quitting, etc, all seem to have something in common with each other as well as the larpers. They all have a streak of taking their own views, their own missions/directives, etc, and their own identities a bit too seriously. I'm willing to believe there are even people who do not reply around the temple even for similar reasons. I suspect this because I have been in that position too before I gradually pulled myself out of it.

Its interesting how some of the most intelligent and personable people in the world happen to be comedians. I suspect its because they have scooped out enough of the weight inside of themselves (the seriousness) in order to just be lightheartedly sincere - not just that they think they are being genuine, in fact, them thinking so would just make them feel serious I think, but they just are.

Just some of my thoughts.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: May I ask where and who you have seen this ? In my practice it is done. Are you just assuming all Jeddist are the same and all Jedi ism im general is fake ? That seems to be a pretty blanket statement. Some it’s not a religion. Some it is and even some it’s more a mantra. So many different...

I think this is a problem. Jediism has no face. It is simply a loose collective of individuals all doing their own thing. There is no leadership element, no cohesive message, no single goal, no agreed upon mission. There is not even a practical statement of what it is. Because of this the role players, the larpers, and the "serious" all get thrown in together and it creates this malformed viscous parade of diverse entities all talking at once so that no one can truly get a handle on it.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

This has always been what baffles me about Jediism. A religion whose primary focus is not religion. It's strange to say the least. Instead of spiritual pursuit of the force, the primary mission is service. But that service is carried out in fantastical ways through role play and not actual pursuit of real service. It's why jediism fails as a church and is viewed by outsiders as a less than serious spirituality. If the mission is spiritual then focus on the lore as a means to explore the philosophy. If the mission is physical then get out our your heads and leave the lore and philosophy out of it. Instead organize and support the pursuit of real life means to accomplish the mission.

Jediism isn't about service. Knightism at totjo has recently been corrupted by ideas of Valor, swords and shields, and the clergy of course are meant to serve church-goers. Do not think the weird jedi bible-bashers are representative of what jediism is.

It is quite normal in jediism to be uninterested in rank and clergy, just like any other religion.

The spirituality is what begets the service.

The more typically ‘light’ spiritual understandings of the Force, if I may clumsily call them that, make service a logical and necessary path.

But once on the service path, without continuing to be supported by the spiritual ideals, the service loses its meaning.

Thus it is not really possible to separate the two and devote one’s time and efforts to one avenue at the expense of the other - for many of us, it has to be both, even if that means our focus might be rather wider and less concentrated than it might otherwise be.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: May I ask where and who you have seen this ? In my practice it is done. Are you just assuming all Jeddist are the same and all Jedi ism im general is fake ? That seems to be a pretty blanket statement. Some it’s not a religion. Some it is and even some it’s more a mantra. So many different...

I think this is a problem. Jediism has no face. It is simply a loose collective of individuals all doing their own thing. There is no leadership element, no cohesive message, no single goal, no agreed upon mission. There is not even a practical statement of what it is. Because of this the role players, the larpers, and the "serious" all get thrown in together and it creates this malformed viscous parade of diverse entities all talking at once so that no one can truly get a handle on it.

But truly - is that what your looking for - as you stated - there is no such thing... without this can you personally not function or be a Jeddist ? Don’t think there needs to be some type of —- commonality - you’ve stayed before you do not believe in such - a common faith even common themes in religions and faiths....so the endless loop never ends . I hope you figure it out for yourself Kyrin - I truly do, and if you have - right on.

I am a face of Jedi ism. By my own example as are many here with the extra * this is how I do it - I figured it out and you can if you want to. I’ve seen with my own two eyes people who find peace and here are those who deny or even say what these have is a lie and even go to the extremes to unbalance what they themselfs do not understand or have. Happens all the time. Not only in Jedi ism.- I guess the romance for me is the personal path that can be taken. How wonderful it is for me to see the Force in my every day life - for it to manifest itself in my daily practice and study. That’s my goal. That’s my hope for every Jeddist - in this temple or out - that your choices help you and others. I tend to question those who often disagree with peace and it’s obvious they have none. ( not talking about you specifically- only as an example of what I’ve seen first hand.)
But that for me, is the romance of it all - I can have it deep - like others - May not be the same same - May be different but still - the same. The love I have - others can experience - in many different ways .... or not

ren wrote: Jediism isn't about service.

V-Tog wrote: The spirituality is what begets the service.

I think point proven here...

V-Tog wrote: But once on the service path, without continuing to be supported by the spiritual ideals, the service loses its meaning.

Why does service have to be supported by Jediism ideals in order to have meaning?