Discussing ideas, not people

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20 Mar 2019 00:56 #335917 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Discussing ideas, not people

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: In informal writing “you” is actually the preferred form to specifically address the reader and "one" is used only when you want to address a person in general but not specifically the reader. This is considered good practice in general. In formal writing the latter might be preferred to the former because the former can come across as accusatory. But this is really the only circumstance to use "one" as opposed to "you." Generally, except in very formal writing, "one" comes across as rather pretentious or old fashioned. It puts distance between the reader and writer which is seen as a bad thing making “you” the preferred term to use.

Same goes for so called “softening” phrases like I believe, I feel or I think. These phrases do not inspire confidence in the reader, In fact they do the exact opposite. Their use causes the reader to question the author’s authenticity and honesty. These words make the writer sound unsure of themselves and the topic discussed. It also forces the writer to overuse pronouns and that’s not effective writing.


Sources? This seems like pure bullshit.

(Sorry for being blunt, I figured it would inspire authenticity haha)

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal

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20 Mar 2019 01:09 #335919 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Manu wrote:
Sources? This seems like pure bullshit.

(Sorry for being blunt, I figured it would inspire authenticity haha)



General knowledge from college....

But if you insist.

www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/one-versus-you

Look the rest up yourself! Lol

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
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20 Mar 2019 03:16 #335923 by JamesSand
Speaking writing technique ;)

General knowledge from college....

But if you insist.


is provocative, and I know you're clever enough to know it.

I actually agree with your position on writing style, but now whilst defending or explaining it to Manu, you're taking cheap shots.

I bring it up now, not as an attack, but an as example of (for all the absence of the word "You" or "One") it is now a criticism of people, not discussion of ideas. (which is exactly what this discussion is about. In fact, I am so confident you are so clever that you have only done this to serve as an example that I am probably ruining it by trying to point it out or explain it) ;)

Communication is a slippery worm, I'm sure you one can enjoy many pages of this thread trying to pin it down and formulate rules on how to manage it, with nothing to show for it but frustration at the end.

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20 Mar 2019 03:28 #335926 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Discussing ideas, not people
I guess 'you' can be taken either way, and so it will depend on the context more. If the context is argumentative about an idea, then perhaps avoiding the use of 'you' in that circumstance is much more efficient at avoiding misunderstanding - unless an attack is meant in which case its ideal. So again we're at this place of people abusing the freedoms afforded causing everyone to suffer under specificity or rules and laws. It goes back to genuine intent, if your aiming for clear communication then it serves to keep it clear by avoiding that elevated ambiguity of things like 'you'. And so to softening language works in that scenario as well I reckon, to assist in clarity.... and if the reader doesn't know how to process an appearance of honesty then there is not much anyone can do about that anyway for they'll probably get argumentative whichever way it goes if it does not agree.

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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20 Mar 2019 03:39 #335929 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Provocative, james? What? That was not provocative.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

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22 Mar 2019 08:50 - 22 Mar 2019 11:34 #336098 by OB1Shinobi
This is one of those rules that i personally dont worry too much about. I respond to posts with my honest impressions. Most of the time that means i discuss content but every once in awhile it means i tell someone the impression that i have of them, personally. I couldnt begin to formulate a set of rules that effectively delineates when its appropriate to cross that line, but i think i walk the line pretty well. If i dont, i expect you all to tell me. Oh wait, you cant. You can never tell me when im being a jerk no matter how much of an insufferable jerk i am, because that would violate the rule of discussing ideas and not people. Win-ning :laugh: :P

“As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.”
-Don Juan Matus
Last edit: 22 Mar 2019 11:34 by OB1Shinobi.
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22 Mar 2019 13:31 #336106 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Discussing ideas, not people

OB1Shinobi wrote: This is one of those rules that i personally dont worry too much about. I respond to posts with my honest impressions. Most of the time that means i discuss content but every once in awhile it means i tell someone the impression that i have of them, personally. I couldnt begin to formulate a set of rules that effectively delineates when its appropriate to cross that line, but i think i walk the line pretty well.


I feel the same way, which is why this rule tends to strike the wrong cord with me. I feel it is simply more organic to be holistic during conversation, and that means discussing people as well. It can be done without being insulting, and I do agree you walk that line quite well.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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24 Mar 2019 17:34 #336177 by Kyrin Wyldstar
All to often it is the ideas some have of other people that become the subject of discussion. These ideas are hopelessly skewed due to the limiting nature of this medium but that does not stop them from drawing conclusions and then stalking their quarry endlessly in the name of misplaced justice.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
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24 Mar 2019 18:54 #336179 by elizabeth

OB1Shinobi wrote: This is one of those rules that i personally dont worry too much about. I respond to posts with my honest impressions. Most of the time that means i discuss content but every once in awhile it means i tell someone the impression that i have of them, personally. I couldnt begin to formulate a set of rules that effectively delineates when its appropriate to cross that line, but i think i walk the line pretty well. If i dont, i expect you all to tell me. Oh wait, you cant. You can never tell me when im being a jerk no matter how much of an insufferable jerk i am, because that would violate the rule of discussing ideas and not people. Win-ning :laugh: :P



Dont worry Ob1, I will always tell you when your being a jerk :)
You can always return it too

I never loose.


TM Karn
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24 Mar 2019 18:58 #336180 by Proteus
With religion comes beliefs.
With belifs comes convictions.
With convictions comes attachment to ideas.
With attachment to ideas comes feeling personally attacked when an idea you are attached to is criticized.

So it is tricky to be religious (or even philosophical on many things) and know how to manage your ego identity apart from ideas that come with it, to be able to talk about things with those with a different view without eventually feeling offended or attacked. But I think this is the point of practicing intelligent humility. ("Intelligent" is the keyword in that term here).

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts

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