What Is Your Personal Directive as a Jedi?

No Manu I make no hard assumptions. My point was that many do though, assume somebody else should act or behave or talk a specific way and then go about trying to make them change. That never works very well and yes kobos I would agree it comes from ego and I think that ego is fed by a false sense of superiority because they have been given a title.

Proteus, as for my driving purpose I think we all have many but in the context of this conversation mine would be an honest search for truth. It is not an easy process and sometimes can be harsh for any of us. Does my purpose interfere with others purpose? Well I would say no because I think we are each responsible for our own responses and reactions. But others seem to not feel this way. Their mission in life seems to be meta-involvement in others business. Namely judging the nature of anothers pursuit as invalid and then setting out to correct it.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: No Manu I make no hard assumptions. My point was that many do though, assume somebody else should act or behave or talk a specific way and then go about trying to make them change. That never works very well and yes kobos I would agree it comes from ego and I think that ego is fed by a false sense of superiority because they have been given a title.

I don’t think it’s the title that does it. Remember Karpman’s victim triangle? I believe many who are attracted to the Jedi imagery as heroes/knights/monks have the tendency to fall into the Rescuer perspective, and thus are quick to apply their bias to “identify” both the “Persecuter” doing the bullying and the “Victim” needing saving.

Because the Rescuer role is sort of aligned with Jedi mythos, and at the same time socially acceptable, it makes it even easier to play into the drama.

And of course that is why you get often singled out as a Persecuter. Ironically, this might make you “feel” like a victim, haha.

Can you imagine if the people here who like to see and fight persecution where there is none did the same thing in similar situations offline? Complained to the police as they do here to the mods? 'hello officer this person is talking about things I don't like can you kick them out of the country please?'

Manu wrote: I don’t think it’s the title that does it. Remember Karpman’s victim triangle? I believe many who are attracted to the Jedi imagery as heroes/knights/monks have the tendency to fall into the Rescuer perspective, and thus are quick to apply their bias to “identify” both the “Persecuter” doing the bullying and the “Victim” needing saving.

Because the Rescuer role is sort of aligned with Jedi mythos, and at the same time socially acceptable, it makes it even easier to play into the drama.

And of course that is why you get often singled out as a Persecuter. Ironically, this might make you “feel” like a victim, haha.

I think this is pretty spot on. It's this very thing that make so many here not actually be in pursuit of a spiritual wisdom but just simple role players or LARPers. These focuses on robes and light sabers and titles and self delusional ideas and actions that they are some form of modern day super hero are what keeps this place from its legitimate place in spiritual circles and it is what stifles individual growth in so many here.

You are right I went through that victim phase for a while but I never let it stop me from growth. I evolved past it and have seen so much more now. I never gave up as so many that progressed higher in the ranks than I have done. In fact as I have worked myself out of the temple ranks I have become a better Jedi in the process.

It always floors me when a knight will claim such a high standard in an oath of rank or office at this temple but the second things dont go as they want according to their biased view, temper tantrums and resignations are the result. I no longer follow the example of these so called "Jedi in name only" and have come to realize who the true Jedi of this place are. I now follow the example of people like you and Ren, who sit back and quietly contribute always without fail. In my mind jedi like you guys are the true jedi of this place. Quiet service without need of ego stroking.

I think that is the true lesson of this place, finding the ability to truly shed the delusion of super hero worship and become a true contributor to our reality both here and irl. I think this realization is the true single driving factor in the difference in mentality the OP asked for.

Well said Kyrin. I agree with the sentiments you've shared here. A long time ago, individual growth and mutual accountability was the group dynamic. Back then, there were no ranks and respect was earned and maintained over time. You couldn't expect to throw your rank around as a free pass to handwaive away your actions, you actually had to answer for them to the group. If you didn't satisfy the group when questioned, you lost respect. Simple really. Ultimately, I think excessive hierarchy and rank eventually hinders growth more than it helps.

MTFBWY

Well, if anyone has been reading recent posts I have to answer that for this that it is a process (rather then a statement)

But basically, shaping growth... mostly self, but others where its welcomed and possible. Finding a deeper awareness of essence through refinement of ones nature. The later being the product of essence and environment IMO. Which is interesting, because when that is the priority, it really makes those who are not on the same path stand out a mile :silly:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: It's this very thing that make so many here not actually be in pursuit of a spiritual wisdom but just simple role players or LARPers. These focuses on robes and light sabers and titles and self delusional ideas and actions that they are some form of modern day super hero are what keeps this place from its legitimate place in spiritual circles and it is what stifles individual growth in so many here.

This should get its own separate thread. Right off the bat, I would declare a non sequitur on the inverse relationship between love for lightsabers and spiritual growth. And a “hero mythos” might be a meditation tool in driving purpose and training, so, your whole assessment is highly debatable, and perhaps outside the scope of this thread (I.e. deserves a thread of its own)

You are right I went through that victim phase for a while but I never let it stop me from growth. I evolved past it and have seen so much more now. I never gave up as so many that progressed higher in the ranks than I have done. In fact as I have worked myself out of the temple ranks I have become a better Jedi in the process.

If you were able to grow out of the Victim triangle, wouldn’t it make sense that others can as well? Give ‘em time.

It always floors me when a knight will claim such a high standard in an oath of rank or office at this temple but the second things dont go as they want according to their biased view, temper tantrums and resignations are the result.

It might have to do with the reverence that is built up around the rank itself. But all members, from guests to founders, are human, and thus may at one point or another make a mistake.

I no longer follow the example of these so called "Jedi in name only" and have come to realize who the true Jedi of this place are. I now follow the example of people like you and Ren, who sit back and quietly contribute always without fail. In my mind jedi like you guys are the true jedi of this place. Quiet service without need of ego stroking.

As much as I am flattered, I think it is a huge disservice to exclude other people as “real Jedi” that can offer valuable contribution, simply because I cannot grasp their point of view at this particular point in time. Wherever you look there is something to be seen, and all that...

Manu wrote: This should get its own separate thread. Right off the bat, I would declare a non sequitur on the inverse relationship between love for lightsabers and spiritual growth. And a “hero mythos” might be a meditation tool in driving purpose and training, so, your whole assessment is highly debatable, and perhaps outside the scope of this thread (I.e. deserves a thread of its own)

Well I never said it was an inverse relationship. I consider them mutually exclusive but there is also the very factual reality where many individuals replace one (true spiritual pursuit) with the other (delusions of being a science fiction superhero). And I also think this speaks to the root of the OP post so I don’t consider them separate subjects. It comes down to the very definition of Jedi and which of us actually fulfill that definition. Subconscious LARPers, of which there are many at this temple, are not individuals I respect as being in pursuit of an honest spiritual path.

Manu wrote: If you were able to grow out of the Victim triangle, wouldn’t it make sense that others can as well? Give ‘em time.

Oh yes I absolutely agree! But we must also be brutally honest in our assessments and only give credit where credit is due. And in that pursuit we must also recognize that until such time as they may grow out of these places of fantasy they have little to offer in the way of true wisdom. And that we only do them a further disservice in prematurely granting them these ranks that only serve to further inflate their ego and thus more greatly entrench them in their delusions. Rank, if it must exist, should not be a matter of academics, but of action. It is this very temples impatience to legitify itself that has caused this disparity.

Manu wrote: As much as I am flattered, I think it is a huge disservice to exclude other people as “real Jedi” that can offer valuable contribution, simply because I cannot grasp their point of view at this particular point in time. Wherever you look there is something to be seen, and all that...

I am making no claims that any one is a Jedi or not a Jedi. However I do reserve the right to personally judge, in my opinion, who the pretenders are and who the true advocates are. It’s not in a title that I do this but in an individual’s actions. People can call themselves whatever they want, I could care less. I have never been particularity attached to the title and I have said that many times here. What I am interested in is the work. And I find great value in good hard honest work. This is not in the form of service to others but of service to self. There is too much focus on selflessness and too little focus on selfishness. Without the willingness to work on “self” first you will never benefit another in any meaningful way.

Writing a few lessons on Jedi utility belts and twirling a light saber around for a few months like some sort of drum major and then declaring themselves Battlemasters where they proceed to create colorful dialogues that could only come from a Sci-Fi B movie in which they demonize others and declare their destruction at their hand, all while safely hiding behind the curtain of a protected forum, are fake individuals that I have no respect for as Jedi. Until they earn that respect, something I hope they do, I have little time for them.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I consider them mutually exclusive but there is also the very factual reality where many individuals replace one (true spiritual pursuit) with the other (delusions of being a science fiction superhero). And I also think this speaks to the root of the OP post so I don’t consider them separate subjects. It comes down to the very definition of Jedi and which of us actually fulfill that definition. Subconscious LARPers, of which there are many at this temple, are not individuals I respect as being in pursuit of an honest spiritual path.

Why are they mutually exclusive?

Oh yes I absolutely agree! But we must also be brutally honest in our assessments and only give credit where credit is due. And in that pursuit we must also recognize that until such time as they may grow out of these places of fantasy they have little to offer in the way of true wisdom. And that we only do them a further disservice in prematurely granting them these ranks that only serve to further inflate their ego and thus more greatly entrench them in their delusions. Rank, if it must exist, should not be a matter of academics, but of action. It is this very temples impatience to legitify itself that has caused this disparity.

I have no issue with brutal honesty. But in my experience as a father, customer service rep, sales manager, forum admin, etc. people are not all alike. Different people and different situations require different communication styles. This has nothing to do with "behavior unbecoming" crap people tend to throw around... it is simply a matter of maximizing effectiveness.

As to the ranking system, what do you suggest as a yardstick for determining who is ready?

What I am interested in is the work. And I find great value in good hard honest work. This is not in the form of service to others but of service to self. There is too much focus on selflessness and too little focus on selfishness. Without the willingness to work on “self” first you will never benefit another in any meaningful way.

I am interested. Tell me more about the focus on working on selfishness. What kind of work are you thinking about?

Writing a few lessons on Jedi utility belts and twirling a light saber around for a few months like some sort of drum major and then declaring themselves Battlemasters where they proceed to create colorful dialogues that could only come from a Sci-Fi B movie in which they demonize others and declare their destruction at their hand, all while safely hiding behind the curtain of a protected forum, are fake individuals that I have no respect for as Jedi. Until they earn that respect, something I hope they do, I have little time for them.

I guess they'll have to learn to survive without your respect.

Adder wrote: Well, if anyone has been reading recent posts I have to answer that for this that it is a process (rather then a statement)

Exactly many discussion nearly always turns into poking each other.
Well, in order to not just to chatter,

I would say that my present directive in sense of Jedi purpose is to become honest as much as possible. To become an authentic/real.
In way, to not pretend that I feel good, even though it´s not true. Which is caused by effort to not disappoint others.
The path leads through breaking my needs to look like a nice girl in front the eyes of others. (because I am accustomed to show only one side of my personality)
That good one.

Manu wrote: Why are they mutually exclusive?

Because one is not derivative of or dependent on the other. One can be both or one can be neither or one can be either one. It is when they are conflated that the issue arises.

Manu wrote: I have no issue with brutal honesty. But in my experience as a father, customer service rep, sales manager, forum admin, etc. people are not all alike. Different people and different situations require different communication styles. This has nothing to do with "behavior unbecoming" crap people tend to throw around... it is simply a matter of maximizing effectiveness.

As to the ranking system, what do you suggest as a yardstick for determining who is ready?

Yes I agree to a certain extent. But the other side of that is also that we all need to be more accepting of different communication styles. This is a process of being responsible for ourselves and responding to others instead of reacting to them. Different cultures have different styles and it becomes a matter of expanding our own horizons to encompass those different points of view. The young girl from the Midwest who takes her first trip to New York might be totally offended by their course communications style but if she realizes it’s just the way they talk, she can adjust her thinking. The same goes for us being responsible for our own communication styles. A customer service rep who is not cut out to carry that communication style is in the wrong job and she needs to realize that and find something she can excel in. It’s all a matter of recognizing our own limits and expanding our horizons beyond being offended by every little thing. Control of ourselves, ya know, not trying to control everyone else!

As for the ranking thing, I say get rid of it and replace it with a Board of Directors. The hierarchy would be as a guest or a member. Members get to vote and the BOD would be subordinate to the membership. Create VPs of various divisions like library etc. BOD get voted into office by the membership. These are those recognized by the entire community as being worthy of the office. The chair assembly could replace the council with a small number of BOD members with voting rights of their own for admin decisions internally. This structure would not only put the officers of this temple in true service to the membership instead of being self appointed but it would also facilitate a natural means by which the entire community can recognize individuals for their contributions and reward them that "rank".

Manu wrote: I am interested. Tell me more about the focus on working on selfishness. What kind of work are you thinking about?

These would be deep dives into the real issues of our world as well as into our psyche. I see so many useless lessons floating around here. Build a utility belt or watch this cartoon and evaluate it or what is your workout routine. None of these things are providing any sort of meaning to a Jedi lifestyle. We need to be exploring concepts like the nature of consciousness, critical thinking, what is the self and issues like rape, ptsd, mental illness. Deep and intense subjects. And yes I know that the argument against this is that some are not ready for these sorts of deep dives. My counter to that is that if they are not ready for these deep dives then they are damn well not ready for knighthood!!

Manu wrote: I guess they'll have to learn to survive without your respect.

I am not responsible for their survival. My respect notwithstanding, that is on them alone.

Proteus wrote: So I am curious, what kind of Jedi do you consider yourself and why? What is you personal directive as a Jedi?

What kind of Jedi am I?
Well. I’m not really 100% sure, but I’d like to think I walk a sort of line between passion and control, between radicalism and moderation. I don’t see the Force as light and dark but as a spectrum, a beautiful spectrum full of every possible color. I don’t see in shades of gray but in a rainbow of colors.

My personal directive as a Jedi? That’s a completely different and altogether more complex question for me. I haven’t really thought of it in such terms before. I suppose my directive might be to seek that delicate balance between extremes that I mentioned above...as well as to better the world around me to the best of my abilities. To serve others and help them better themselves and the world around them.

Proteus wrote: Perhaps talking about this can help us better understand each other when we interact?

It certainly might!

ren wrote: Can you imagine if the people here who like to see and fight persecution where there is none did the same thing in similar situations offline? Complained to the police as they do here to the mods? 'hello officer this person is talking about things I don't like can you kick them out of the country please?'

I found this interesting, because while one can't kick someone out of the country for "fighting persecution" here in the united states, you can have someone removed from your home, business, etc....Not that I support blind removals but the whole fight persecution where there is none is a bit of a reach...

Tellahane wrote:
I found this interesting, because while one can't kick someone out of the country for "fighting persecution" here in the united states, you can have someone removed from your home, business, etc....Not that I support blind removals but the whole fight persecution where there is none is a bit of a reach...

What I find funny is how those labeled as persecuters are the ones the most persecuted on these boards. There seems to be a heavy “pull” towards “keeping the peace”, which sometimes reeks of herd mentality.

Correlation does not imply causation. Which is why these things are looked at within frameworks and those frameworks adjusted to better engineer outcomes.

And within any type of group these are usually called rules. Platforms of interaction can be defined by the tools created but often the tools are insufficient to define the intended activity and so rules exist to shape activity in that free space afforded by shortcomings in the platform.

Manu wrote: What I find funny is how those labeled as persecuters are the ones the most persecuted on these boards. There seems to be a heavy “pull” towards “keeping the peace”, which sometimes reeks of herd mentality.

Youre defending rape culture you victim blaming nazi. Youre literally hitler and i hope you die in a fire. KYS cis gendered chauvinist scum.

Manu wrote:
What I find funny is how those labeled as persecuters are the ones the most persecuted on these boards. There seems to be a heavy “pull” towards “keeping the peace”, which sometimes reeks of herd mentality.

Ah yes, the herd is alive and well! Fat and happily grazing. And the posse rides, the names and faces change but the mentality remains constant. They stand tall in the saddle and ride hard to defeat evil. And one by one they are shot from those saddles. Or they succumb to the madness of the incessant heat of the dessert sun and wander aimlessly over the horizon, having been driven batty by their own convictions and need for control. And the masters of evil remain. Fore they know the true secret of longevity, to never allow themselves to be tied down by false moral convictions but instead flow with the whims of the spirit in the wind and the rain. Damn it's good to be a gansta!

https://youtu.be/eEneQFEFgMQ

Well there is the Jedi code

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaRae8UNj7s

Well, apparently you got to click on the title and watch it on youtube.

Try this one, instead
If you aint cheatin, you aint tryin

Anyway, the pinnacle of Robert Duval westerns is Gus in Lonesome Dove. This movie will change your bum life