The Inherent Worth of All Life

More
02 Feb 2019 06:05 #333444 by JLSpinner
I believe worth is a great term here because it IS subjective. It's a personal term. So when we say that Jedi believe in the inherent worth of all life, this isn't some passive belief. This means that we need to actively find the worth. I actively need to be thankful for the nutrients in the pig I'm eating. I need to actively treat people with respect and compassion, even if I think they are an ass. I need to actively understand the importance of all life and their roles in the world. By using worth we are forced to place focus on how we are interacting with all living things.


Teaching Master: Phortis Nespin
Apprentice: Kobos
Apprentice: Nakis
Contact Clergy
The following user(s) said Thank You: Firewolf, Rosalyn J, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Feb 2019 11:39 #333447 by ren
Replied by ren on topic The Inherent Worth of All Life
The inherent worth of life to me means that, for example, a cow is worth a cow, not a certain amount of beef meat, or a certain amount of fertilizer. A bacteria is worth just that too, its value is not defined in relation to its usefulness to us as an antibiotic or harmfulness as an infection (or toxicity to us).

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosalyn J, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Feb 2019 18:38 - 02 Feb 2019 18:44 #333454 by OB1Shinobi
Thanks Rosalyn J, this is a good topic idea.

Life is nearly everywhere on earth but how much life is there in the universe at large? We cant say with certainty... but it looks like its pretty rare. Like Kobos, I see and respect life as a process. I believe that process is special on the universal scale. How did life emerge from non-life? Is it just a random fluke of chemistry or is it driven by something more?

lco.global/spacebook/how-did-life-start-earth/

I also recognize that part of the Life process is death and predation and exploitation: parasites can be damn nasty to their hosts, and predators seem to have no concept of mercy whatesoever. Being eaten alive or dying slowly due to illness or injury is the “natural order of things” and most every living creature has one or the other to look forward to before it gets off this rock. Thats the backdrop for my philosophy about life. Its both amazing and terrible.

As a human being i am able to relate to the autonomy of others, including other species. I can relate to their suffering and i can relate to their sense of “selfness” or “me-ness”. Or i can project it onto them, as the case may be lol. In any event, i dont want to hurt them or to damage them in any way.

Does this affect my behavior at all? I try not to kill or injure harmless living things, including bugs/insects and plants and trees. I dont kill or hunt or harm anything for recreation (though i support hunting for food and think everyone should do it at least once in their life).

I also kill things that are dangerous if they get too close. Mosquitos or roaches, certain spiders, scorpions, poison ivy, rattlesnakes - if i encounter them while passing through their territory i leave them alone. If they appear in mine, they are a danger to me and the ones i care for, so i kill them. Thats also respecting life- mine and those i love.

As for what i eat: for the time being, my diet is more a result of my budget than my conscience, but generally...




"One should respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond that is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways"
-Lord Russel
Attachments:
Last edit: 02 Feb 2019 18:44 by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosalyn J, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Feb 2019 01:20 #333487 by Adder
To me its not the inherent worth of the animal, but its the inherent worth of the life force, and as such its life force is equal among all life in qualitative terms by its presence - and that the quantity of life force is irrelevant, such as a small or sick does not interfere with its worth (in this regard).

Interaction with others then is a function of the vehicles of that life force, its complexity in design and function, representing the quantitative aspect of life force not qualitative... ie the game of black and white. But that is not associated to its worth in this context, because they share an equal qualitative aspect.

Perhaps the dark side perspective is to see things for what they are worth, and the light side is to see the inherent equality of worth.... in this way.

But I think its natural for people to see interactions with others in terms of self relevance, and self utility.... and to some extent this has to be true when you consider things like survival, but that is perhaps overdone out of convenience beyond what might be better for all involved.

For instance, I had to put down my Kitty on the 3 days ago, after 4 months of providing palliative care... so you'd think my bias would be big, but not on these concepts as they remain unchanged. The most interesting thing was how quickly others were willing to write her off, in the absence of a conclusive diagnosis. The question of when to euthanize is not easy, but it was as if it was easiest to get rid of a problem more then consider the inherent worth of the creature to live its life. Obviously at some point the discomfort of the apparent terminality justified it for me despite her continued strength of spirit and will to live in spite of the disease progression, which connected the whole topic to the principle of 'do unto others what you would have done unto yourself'.

File Attachment:
Temple Security Officer ~ Jedi Knight ~ Seminarian
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
Joined: Aug 2011..... TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
'The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.'
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Rosalyn J, Omhu Cuspor, OB1Shinobi, Kobos, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Feb 2019 21:28 #333629 by Kyrin Wyldstar
I think the phrase is poorly worded. To believe in the inherent worth of ALL life implies there are different kinds of life. But don’t Jedi believe that all life is connected, so in reality it’s not all life, its just life?

And where does this life inherent this worth from? And how do Jedi respect this belief in that worth? If a mosquito bites your arm you will kill it right? If you need a house you will cut down a tree. If you need to eat you will kill an animal or a plant. Why is this “inherent worth” disregarded in these situations?

Even Arisaig mentions his belief that he is a steel pillar in the ocean of the force while others are not. Is this not by definition a judgement that his worth is more or stronger than others? It seems this inheritance Jedi believe in is something quite subjective and can change according to the situation.

Now any of these acts or beliefs I mentioned could be executed with respect to life. So I think the phrase should be changed from what it is now to one that says:

“Jedi subjectively respect life according to their need.”

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Feb 2019 21:34 - 04 Feb 2019 21:39 #333630 by Arisaig

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Even Arisaig mentions his belief that he is a steel pillar in the ocean of the force while others are not. Is this not by definition a judgement that his worth is more or stronger than others? It seems this inheritance Jedi believe in is something quite subjective and can change according to the situation.


The steel does not judge the water for being as it is. It is simply different. Not above, not below. It stands amongst the water, different because of its nature (steel pillars, as you may know, are not naturally occurring), because of what it has gone through.

Ask questions, rather than make assumptions, unless one believes themselves better than the person they're critiquing.

Side note: its great to have you as a fan, honestly. You don't speak to me, but about me, making you prolly one of my greatest fans. Its flattering. :3

Panentheist Jedi Realist
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx

Holocrons: ~ IP I AP I Personal ~
TM: Zenchi
Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 21:39 by Arisaig.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
04 Feb 2019 22:01 - 04 Feb 2019 22:02 #333631 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Arisaig wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Even Arisaig mentions his belief that he is a steel pillar in the ocean of the force while others are not. Is this not by definition a judgement that his worth is more or stronger than others? It seems this inheritance Jedi believe in is something quite subjective and can change according to the situation.


The steel does not judge the water for being as it is. It is simply different. Not above, not below. It stands amongst the water, different because of its nature (steel pillars, as you may know, are not naturally occurring), because of what it has gone through.

Ask questions, rather than make assumptions, unless one believes themselves better than the person they're critiquing.

Side note: its great to have you as a fan, honestly. You don't speak to me, but about me, making you prolly one of my greatest fans. Its flattering. :3


Is not my statement above in red a question? lol, I made no assumption. I made a statement and then asked a question. and then came to a soft conclusion. In fact my next paragraph, of which you omitted here, was one in which I suggested the very thing you have said, that its not better, just different as a form of respect. But even in your statement here you state that your position is not one that is naturally occurring, implying that modification has been applied and thus is in an "improved" position over the water. Am I to conclude from this that you feel that in order for the water to be able to achieve the steels level of excellence it must be changed as well to steel? By doing this does it not take away the advantages of being water?

I speak to you just as much as anyone else in these threads so Im not sure why you come to the conclusions you do. I don't think I would characterize myself as a fan so much as one that has taken a special interest in your growth. You have potential, raw and unfocused but I think we can change that!

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 22:02 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.