Simple interesting question for thinking

Is possible to do something, act, love, think - without any conditionality?
If we take world as interdependent.

Certainly the most of us ever met with allegation types like this:

• Helping peoples (unconditionally), just I want help
• I love him as he/she is (unconditionally)

>The firist allegation about helping people isn´t unconditional. The person he/she follows some benefit,
like feel good, better karma and so on...

>The second allegation about love. Well we could love persons as they are, but the person will propably
have at least one positive characteristics. For sure you wouldn´t love the cold-blooded assassin, he must have some
characteristic, wich attracted us, not even bad. < so we get to point that still we love some part of positive characterisic
and also we accept negative - but is it unconditionally?

This type of allegation is funny in certain point because they aren´t true.

Do you agree with me, or have you another opinion? Please write

Interdependent, they are One. In One, there is no cause and no effect. One is. Beyond condition. It acts, without acting. It loves infinitely. And thoughts come and go, ever playing.

I once asked a Buddhist monk if the thoughts between different peope are connected. He said: It is not important. I think he was right. There is no point in chasing thoughts if you want to find the unconditional essence.

Tao Te Ching Chapter 63:
Do without doing,
Act without action.
Savor the flavorless.
Treat the small as large, the few as many.
Meet injury with the power of goodness.
- translated by Ursula K. Le Guin, 1998

Love is a strange thing. The greatest of lovers will tell you ever day can bring new reasons to love and new reasons to hate - all the while it will be just life to our loved one. Love can be a choice at times and that is a simple condition - wether we choose or not choose. As I practice my own re definitions of love - I find the unconditional idea to be a goal to set now into motion. It is wise to define things for your self and make your own ways. It is our human right. Love is no exception to this garden - we CAN cultivate it or let it grow wild.
The unconditional type of love can be cultivated and grown and strengthen or can come naturally - either way once we got it - what to do with it and how to keep it - that’s the million dollar question. An old lady told me once to be carful what u ask for - especially in love - she told me “no fair asking (in a silly voice ) please God help me love my wife -and then when she needs love - don’t say - God - why can’t you make her like this - instead of judging her - love her - instead of asking why - apply : like that , your creating a love that’s worth having and keeping and ... giving. “
I could talk all day about love but I hope this can help a bit. As the Toltecs say - “ the domestication of humans “ can also fall under our love as well.

The ancient Greeks defined 8 different forms of love, all of them considered conditional but one: Agape.

Agape is considered a naturally selfless love which is considered already in place whether realised by an individual or not. I think it has a root in things like empathy, or the existential identification and connection with others. This is not something chosen because it's considered to already be there through the fundamental nature of being human, period. The realization or acting upon Agape I think might be conditional though, probably dependent on various psychological or spiritual factors.

The phenomenon of certain sentimental love (like "pragma", "storge", or "philia" for example) can often seem to be conditional, though I believe that when they are genuine, they are developed through Agape, and in a means uncontrolled by the individual. It is when we find that it is happening to us regardless of our choosing that it is most genuine.

I wonder, since sociopaths and people with Anti-Social Personality Disorder don't feel empathy, if they truly don't have Agape.

That´s great question, but it´s hard to answer. I think the sociopoath and the Anti-Social Personality ´ve got empathy, apparently lower but still. About Agape, I think they could be loved by somebody who ´ve got similar thinking and action < so they aren´t so suprised by behaviour from sociopath and other similar type of persons.
Anyway for ordinary peoples is difficult to love them.

I could not resist looking this up on the web.

People without agape are not necessarily sociopaths with an anti-social personality disorder. They still may have 'philia': brotherly love and friendship.

They may just be lacking a certain type of spiritual understanding.

Interestingly, in the greek originals of the bible , one can see that even the apostle Peter had only 'philia' for Jesus (John 21:15–19).

Contrary to phila, brotherly love and friendship, "Agape is used to describe the love that is of and from God, whose very nature is love itself: “God is love” (1 John 4:. God does not merely love; He is love itself. Everything God does flows from His love. ... If we are to love as God loves, that love—that agape—can only come from its Source. This is the love that “has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us" ( Romans 5:5 ) ( gotquestions.org )

I believe it is the same love Watts is taking about in chapter 5 when he says that without (that) love, we have nothing to give. He found this, same conclusion through Zen meditation, not through interpreting wrong transations of christian texts.

Agape love is described beautifully in 1 Corinthians 13:

1 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

I agree with Ambert - Sometimes it's easy to think we are 100% selfish or conditional - - but there are crazy times when humans act without regard for their own lives, you just go blank and act. They can save someone without thinking at all that they may die. I think it's important that you try to be selfless, and compassionate personally but that's cause it feels good, and gets awesome results. In a way yes conditional, but everything is. You can't even eat without something perishing, life and death meld into each other like love and hate, things are constantly switching polarity.

Conscious expectations can be avoided in my opinion, but subconsciously I'd say we track every relationship's history to determine likely future energy expenditure impacts. And so if its 'all one way' it might make us in the back of our minds less likely to continue.

But if unwilling or unable to control a one way relationship, then it might create resentment... and therefore start to bleed over into other problems as being part of a network of many problems ie appear bigger then it alone is.

Good to remember that no-one is perfect, and reverse engineering that we could go back and say why is it an net negative energy expenditure in the first place..... it might be something of my own making and unnecessary!
Or not, but there probably are effective strategies with dealing with different things, such as realizing that this process goes both ways and that I myself no doubt am a pain in the tail in many ways :silly: