Request of council, my reinstatement.

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18 Sep 2018 16:25 - 18 Sep 2018 16:27 #326466 by elizabeth
Never mind


Companion on my journey Knight Karn

Its what you do that defines you
Not just empty words
Last edit: 18 Sep 2018 16:27 by elizabeth. Reason: It doesnt need saying

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18 Sep 2018 16:33 - 18 Sep 2018 16:36 #326467 by Avalon
Reason #1,000,001 to be careful what you share online: nothing is ever truly private.

Reason #1? Nothing can ever be truly deleted.

Such things may cease to exist in your PM inbox, but the messages themselves will likely remain on the server somewhere else.... I hope you realize that.


Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that that admitted practice is wrong. The only reason a PM should be read by the admins is if abuse or mistreatment has been reported and thus in the capacity of an official investigation, not willy-nilly because they can.

We agree on very few things, you and I, but this is one thing I think we're wholeheartedly in agreement on.

I am in shut down mode and staying away, as is so clearly desired...
Last edit: 18 Sep 2018 16:36 by Avalon.
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18 Sep 2018 16:45 - 18 Sep 2018 16:46 #326469 by Kyrin Wyldstar
I agree Avalon, and yes I understand that nothing on the internet is every really gone. Rest assured that even the small amount of information that I ever did share was thoroughly scrubbed and so anything I sent was done with no regret.

However others may not be so savvy and for the administration of this place to freely admit the abuse is almost unheard of so I find it prudent to make as many as possible aware and ensure their safety and security of info as well.

Thanks for the reply!

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

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Last edit: 18 Sep 2018 16:46 by Kyrin Wyldstar.
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18 Sep 2018 17:40 #326474 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Just as another thought to add to this was Zenchis constant demands of me to share personal information here at this place. Another charge that could be leveled against him, it was actually one of the major points of contention between he and I. In that regard alone his excommunication is well deserved.

So I warn everyone undertaking a position here that if ANYONE, even a Knight, demands anything of you or coerces you in any way or tries to manipulate you into giving up anything that you are not comfortable sharing do not trust them! I have been victim to this in the past from people I thought I could trust and ended up being betrayed. So never trust anyone you know solely on the internet! EVER!

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprentice to: Mendalicious

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18 Sep 2018 18:03 #326478 by Senan

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Copied and Posted from another thread.

Tellahane wrote: Did we read scan through pm's from time to time, absolutely.


Another reason I will remain a guest here. This is a gross violation of privacy. I dont care what excuse you use to justify it. I and my mentor used the PM system for sensitive information during my training and now Im told that my absolutely private information was not private at all.

I will be deleting all my PMs and I will never be using that system again here and I suggest everyone else to do the same.



I understand your concern and I share them. The entire point of a private message system is that the messages should remain private. For the record, only a few people actually have access to the PM system, and I'm not one of them. Or if I am able, I don't know how. When Tellahane was a Councillor and Site Admin, I know he had access, so maybe he can speak to when and why these "scans" occurred.

It is my understanding that PMs are only accessed when a specific complaint has been made that involves inappropriate and/or illegal behavior. In these cases, we try to ask the accuser for screen shots of the PM in question rather than accessing it ourselves. Again, this is my understanding, but I cannot speak to whether or not this is always the case.

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18 Sep 2018 19:23 #326488 by Tellahane

Senan wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Copied and Posted from another thread.

Tellahane wrote: Did we read scan through pm's from time to time, absolutely.


Another reason I will remain a guest here. This is a gross violation of privacy. I dont care what excuse you use to justify it. I and my mentor used the PM system for sensitive information during my training and now Im told that my absolutely private information was not private at all.

I will be deleting all my PMs and I will never be using that system again here and I suggest everyone else to do the same.



I understand your concern and I share them. The entire point of a private message system is that the messages should remain private. For the record, only a few people actually have access to the PM system, and I'm not one of them. Or if I am able, I don't know how. When Tellahane was a Councillor and Site Admin, I know he had access, so maybe he can speak to when and why these "scans" occurred.

It is my understanding that PMs are only accessed when a specific complaint has been made that involves inappropriate and/or illegal behavior. In these cases, we try to ask the accuser for screen shots of the PM in question rather than accessing it ourselves. Again, this is my understanding, but I cannot speak to whether or not this is always the case.


Only two people have ever had access to my knowledge and it was Ren(currently) and myself when I had the position. I can tell you the only time I ever accessed it was to run queries to search for key words for anything that would be a red flag. As I just mentioned in the other thread you don't actually even see initially who is sending to who without following a trail of ID numbers back to user names, of which I can only recall doing once, and that was when there was a PM that was potentially soliciting a minor, of which no other content anywhere else on the sight had that information in it. If an event had occurred with a minor that was caused via this website, the website and the temple as a whole could have been liable for it if we we'rent monitoring that kind of thing. That being said I have had careers in this area and well aware of how to respect privacy. Not once has any post or communication I've ever made had any content from anyones' private messaging, with only one exception if any and that was that individually suspected pm. This includes the private council chats and other means to which we communicated to each other.

There is no means of any communication online at all that isn't in some way able to be viewed by some type of administrator somewhere. There are ways of encrypting it but every encryption has a way to decrypt it otherwise there wouldn't be a point in storing it. This includes things like discord chats too.
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18 Sep 2018 19:57 #326493 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Tellahane wrote: the website and the temple as a whole could have been liable for it if we we'rent monitoring that kind of thing.


Thats not exactly true. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996, gives websites broad legal immunity: With some exceptions, online platforms can't be sued for something posted by a user — and that remains true even if they act a little like publishers, by moderating posts or setting specific standards. As long as the site has no active hand in the content it is exempt.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
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18 Sep 2018 20:23 #326494 by Tellahane

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Tellahane wrote: the website and the temple as a whole could have been liable for it if we we'rent monitoring that kind of thing.


Thats not exactly true. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996, gives websites broad legal immunity: With some exceptions, online platforms can't be sued for something posted by a user — and that remains true even if they act a little like publishers, by moderating posts or setting specific standards. As long as the site has no active hand in the content it is exempt.


As mentioned elsewhere, not a US hosted server...They also can be gone after despite that act if the platform is proven to be a save haven for organizing such acts, which could be proven if there are no attempts/methods to moderate or protect from such felonies occurring. Which is why privacy policies/terms of use and other such things are so important to online websites hence the continuing discussion in the other thread.

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18 Sep 2018 20:46 - 18 Sep 2018 20:50 #326499 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Tellahane wrote: As mentioned elsewhere, not a US hosted server...They also can be gone after despite that act if the platform is proven to be a save haven for organizing such acts, which could be proven if there are no attempts/methods to moderate or protect from such felonies occurring. Which is why privacy policies/terms of use and other such things are so important to online websites hence the continuing discussion in the other thread.


Where is the server hosted? Doesnt matter really the law is clear, this is a US based corporation and so subject to US law. And to be liable the site owners have to be actively participating in the illegal activity. Beyond that monitoring or not monitoring is irrelevant. The site is exempt. You are justifying your unethical behaviour.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprentice to: Mendalicious
Last edit: 18 Sep 2018 20:50 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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18 Sep 2018 21:16 #326504 by Tellahane
No law was broken, I simply can't explain myself in any other way that doesn't involve violating personal privacy. I can't really say it any other way then that, if that makes me look like a victim trying to play the get out of jail card then so be it but thats that. I'm not continuing the discussion anymore as its clearly pointless, unless council and the members involved give me permission to do otherwise.

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