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Apprentice & Knight Standards
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24 Feb 2018 20:09 #316486
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Apprentice & Knight Standards was created by
This was brought up in another thread. I was hoping to see it come into it's own thread but....guess not? No worries!! I got this 
I am in all honesty curious and I think we can have a great discussion on it.
Please keep in mind. What is discussed, suggested, shared or thought up....is most likely not going to be used or even looked at by those who can make a difference. But that shouldn't stop us from having a healthy conversation!! If its not used here, who knows, maybe it will help you with your own work.
So then!! Here is the question. If YOU could create standards for the Apprentice's or Knights what would it be? It could either be just some small changes, or some big ones! Either way I am interested!
I'll Start us off? Since I did promise I would put my potential solutions where my mouth is
I am in all honesty curious and I think we can have a great discussion on it.Please keep in mind. What is discussed, suggested, shared or thought up....is most likely not going to be used or even looked at by those who can make a difference. But that shouldn't stop us from having a healthy conversation!! If its not used here, who knows, maybe it will help you with your own work.
So then!! Here is the question. If YOU could create standards for the Apprentice's or Knights what would it be? It could either be just some small changes, or some big ones! Either way I am interested!
I'll Start us off? Since I did promise I would put my potential solutions where my mouth is
Warning: Spoiler!
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24 Feb 2018 20:51 #316492
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We can't see the Knights forum since it involves apprentices...I'm sort of surprised we aren't a-party to the discussion!
You did read in the spoilers tag....yes? Id be interested to hear what I missed!
Replied by on topic Apprentice & Knight Standards
Akkarin wrote: Thank you for bringing up this subject Triss, actually there has been some discussion in the Knights forum,
We can't see the Knights forum
since it involves apprentices...I'm sort of surprised we aren't a-party to the discussion! but before we get started on specific proposals what sort of standards do you expect in an Apprenticeship?
You did read in the spoilers tag....yes?
Id be interested to hear what I missed! Please Log in to join the conversation.
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24 Feb 2018 21:12 - 24 Feb 2018 21:14 #316495
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Replied by on topic Apprentice & Knight Standards
- New Apprentices being informed about Clerical Lessons, Seminary, and Confession;
- Clerical related IP stuff and an understanding what Temple Confession does; (both offered as lessons or bonus lessons)
- Why does the IP only cover the non Clerical ranks? Add them into that lesson as well.
A Clerical standard set of knowledge is needed besides an Apprenticeship as requirement in order to become a Knight in my opinion.. I know I am not a Knight, but ehm.. I feel it is missing in the IP, and assume it is not being a focussed upon in Apprenticeships due to it not having a basis, that could have been made in the IP. The Temple is a Church, lets offer more Jediism religious material! Maybe making it optional or relatable to Jediism as religion so that those who are not religious would not be forced to religious study.. ehm.. personally I would love to see it being a requirement of course but I fully assume not everyone would be happy with that. If it therefore could only be more available it would be very awesome too of course. :blush:
- Clerical related IP stuff and an understanding what Temple Confession does; (both offered as lessons or bonus lessons)
- Why does the IP only cover the non Clerical ranks? Add them into that lesson as well.
A Clerical standard set of knowledge is needed besides an Apprenticeship as requirement in order to become a Knight in my opinion.. I know I am not a Knight, but ehm.. I feel it is missing in the IP, and assume it is not being a focussed upon in Apprenticeships due to it not having a basis, that could have been made in the IP. The Temple is a Church, lets offer more Jediism religious material! Maybe making it optional or relatable to Jediism as religion so that those who are not religious would not be forced to religious study.. ehm.. personally I would love to see it being a requirement of course but I fully assume not everyone would be happy with that. If it therefore could only be more available it would be very awesome too of course. :blush:
Last edit: 24 Feb 2018 21:14 by .
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24 Feb 2018 21:43 #316500
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Replied by on topic Apprentice & Knight Standards
Oh! Good suggestin Aqua How would you suggest going about it? surely there are already lessons just at a different level, so how would you.....level it down? As it were....so that Initiates and Apprentices can learn along the way
How would you suggest going about it? surely there are already lessons just at a different level, so how would you.....level it down? As it were....so that Initiates and Apprentices can learn along the way Please Log in to join the conversation.
24 Feb 2018 22:12 - 24 Feb 2018 22:28 #316501
by Locksley
This is a superb point, and I'm totally guilty of using the word interchangeably. I do disagree with the notion that standardization is nothing more than reductive, however. I think that categorical standardization can make a world of difference, as can standardization of specific requirements for "graduation." We don't need to standardize what people believe, exactly, but I think it's worthwhile to standardize some things -- and I think that, in this sense, standardization does equate to "standards of education," because we're saying "you get a lot of leeway to do things how you want, and you get to believe in this in your own way in most cases, but you're also expected to be knowledgeable in these areas to a certain degree, and you need to be able to show that you've internalized the practice to a point where your actions in the world show it." In this last part, especially, standardization is really important, because a set of standardized expectations helps diminish the effect of decisions regarding an Apprentice's Knighthood that is based on the personal opinion of the leadership, and instead focuses more on the student's actual accomplishments.
Should everyone agree with the same "what," "how," "why?" No, I don't think that's healthy either, but I do think that there needs to be some thought given to the notion of what, exactly, it means to be a Jedi Knight (beyond a generalized sense and into the specifics.)
It makes sense to me that these things would be discussed privately by the Knights, first -- while I have my own ideas on what "should" take place, I also realize that it would be a bit much to ask them to tell me about everything that goes on. I gotta trust that someone will bring it up to the rest of us once they actually know what they want to talk to us about, haha.
Well, this is something I'm still working with, and it requires a lot of writing and careful consideration. I've also begun reaching into existing educational models for clues. Right now I'm working with material from Waldorf education (the learning philosophies, not the stuff about Atlantis,) as well as Mindfulness-based education work, to help me construct a systemic education platform. The hardest part is ensuring that the individual nature of Jediism is respected. People do learn best when learning on an interest-based level, and interest-based learning can (with a little guidance) become self-guided, or individual, learning.
Rather than list direct course materials, I'll mention the categories of learning that are important to me. There are some course materials that would remain the same (standardized) for every Apprentice, but there's far more that would be reliant upon their interests and the communication between us. I'd seek to instill the framework for a polymath experience of life in Apprentices, helping them to discover as many interests as possible (especially within the following categories) and then encouraging them to deepen their knowledge in one or more of those areas.
Some categories might be:
It's a very rough list, but it does explore what I expect in a general sense. In reality, while this looks like a lot to cover, it's very open to individual interpretation. For history, I might require a student explore the history of ten figures in history who embody at least some of the virtues espoused by the Knight's code. This would leave them free to write about a wide range of people, from Martin Luther King Jr. to Alfred the Great of England. My goal isn't to try and force a ton of information down the student's throat. It's to increase the breadth of their interests (setting them up to later "learn vertically" and deepen their knowledge in those areas they most care for). It's also to produce someone capable of "right action," (orthopraxy in our religious context) and "Arete," (excellence).
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5
Replied by Locksley on topic Apprentice & Knight Standards
Alexandre Orion wrote: Talking about "standards" is not quite the same as talking about "standardisation". Holding "standards" merely means that we would value that our lessons (not "assignments") actually promote learning all around, whereas "standardisation" subsumes that everyone learns the same (what) from the same lessons (how) for the same needs (why). This would be terribly reductive and not at all in accordance with our why here...
This is a superb point, and I'm totally guilty of using the word interchangeably. I do disagree with the notion that standardization is nothing more than reductive, however. I think that categorical standardization can make a world of difference, as can standardization of specific requirements for "graduation." We don't need to standardize what people believe, exactly, but I think it's worthwhile to standardize some things -- and I think that, in this sense, standardization does equate to "standards of education," because we're saying "you get a lot of leeway to do things how you want, and you get to believe in this in your own way in most cases, but you're also expected to be knowledgeable in these areas to a certain degree, and you need to be able to show that you've internalized the practice to a point where your actions in the world show it." In this last part, especially, standardization is really important, because a set of standardized expectations helps diminish the effect of decisions regarding an Apprentice's Knighthood that is based on the personal opinion of the leadership, and instead focuses more on the student's actual accomplishments.
Should everyone agree with the same "what," "how," "why?" No, I don't think that's healthy either, but I do think that there needs to be some thought given to the notion of what, exactly, it means to be a Jedi Knight (beyond a generalized sense and into the specifics.)
We can't see the Knights forum
It makes sense to me that these things would be discussed privately by the Knights, first -- while I have my own ideas on what "should" take place, I also realize that it would be a bit much to ask them to tell me about everything that goes on. I gotta trust that someone will bring it up to the rest of us once they actually know what they want to talk to us about, haha.
That's awesome!! What sort of Course Materials would you suggest? How would you frame these courses to guide both Apprentice and Teacher while leaving room for individual play?
Well, this is something I'm still working with, and it requires a lot of writing and careful consideration. I've also begun reaching into existing educational models for clues. Right now I'm working with material from Waldorf education (the learning philosophies, not the stuff about Atlantis,) as well as Mindfulness-based education work, to help me construct a systemic education platform. The hardest part is ensuring that the individual nature of Jediism is respected. People do learn best when learning on an interest-based level, and interest-based learning can (with a little guidance) become self-guided, or individual, learning.
Rather than list direct course materials, I'll mention the categories of learning that are important to me. There are some course materials that would remain the same (standardized) for every Apprentice, but there's far more that would be reliant upon their interests and the communication between us. I'd seek to instill the framework for a polymath experience of life in Apprentices, helping them to discover as many interests as possible (especially within the following categories) and then encouraging them to deepen their knowledge in one or more of those areas.
Some categories might be:
- Kinesthesiology: understood as a study of the body. Includes physical activities tailored on an individual basis. Doesn't need to be "exercise" so much as "appreciation for movement and the workings of the body," and might incorporate things like diet planning and sleep cycles as well.
- History: Vital for anyone to learn, and for a Jedi especially, studies of history allow one to act with greater mindfulness of the effect of actions through the width of space and the depth of time. Also promotes "pattern thinking." History studies also promote wide-knowledge awareness of people from multiple cultures (thereby removing the student from a purely local context).
- Science: the student doesn't need to redo their entire pre-college education, but they should demonstrate a working knowledge of scientific principles. The main focus, however, is on "holistic" models of the universe; of understanding the interconnected nature of Nature and the complex and simple systems we both rely upon and are a part of. Ecology.
- Jediism: The codes, creeds and philosophy itself. This would be worked into all the other areas however, and might not even need to be a huge category on its own. Everything in all categories would be viewed through a Jedi lens.
- Social Awareness and Action: Service is a huge part of Jediism, so how aware is the Apprentice of what's happening around them (locally and globally) and what are they doing that constitutes "service" for the betterment of the world?
- Philosophy: Learning to appreciate multiple philosophies on a deeper level, with special attention paid to Zen and Stoicism.
- Communication: Perhaps one of the most important things anyone can learn, but especially a Jedi, is how to communicate in ways that help foster growth, understanding, conflict resolution, and a generally better planet. This would be wound throughout all the Apprentice's studies and would be a very "measurable" learning requirement.
It's a very rough list, but it does explore what I expect in a general sense. In reality, while this looks like a lot to cover, it's very open to individual interpretation. For history, I might require a student explore the history of ten figures in history who embody at least some of the virtues espoused by the Knight's code. This would leave them free to write about a wide range of people, from Martin Luther King Jr. to Alfred the Great of England. My goal isn't to try and force a ton of information down the student's throat. It's to increase the breadth of their interests (setting them up to later "learn vertically" and deepen their knowledge in those areas they most care for). It's also to produce someone capable of "right action," (orthopraxy in our religious context) and "Arete," (excellence).
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5
Last edit: 24 Feb 2018 22:28 by Locksley.
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