On power

stark07911 wrote: That depends on which type of power you mean; power over others or power over one's self. If you are talking about the former, then the only thing I know for certain about power is that I have no desire for it. Every time in my life that I have found myself with a little bit of power over others I noticed it came with the stress of using it and the fear of losing it, and I've had my fill of stress and fear for this lifetime. I've found that I'm much happier the less power I have over other people.

If you mean power over one's self, on the other hand, that is the most important kind of power a person can achieve, and in our current global society, it's also very rare.

That stress and fear come with power. It isn't avoidable. From my experience those emotions usually promote me to seek guidance from those I have "power" with. To ensure that my choices support the whole.

Those emotions nearly killed me last year, so I have a very physical reason for wanting to avoid them whenever possible. They have been, and likely always will be, an unavoidable constant presence in life. One of the things I hope to learn during my time here is how to control my reaction to them. So, in keeping with the original topic of the thread, I'm here seeking power over myself, or rather, how to find it within myself.

Manu wrote:

Streen wrote: The only power any of us has is to be who we are.

This is one of those abstract zen-like statements that on surface appears to be deep and meaningful. But in reality this tells me nothing. What do you mean?

That depends. What does it mean to you?

"The only time we have power over others is if others choose to let us have power over them because people always have choices. Even in jail you can choose to cooperate with your captors or not. People have escaped jail. Or my boss, for example, only has power over me if I choose to follow. I would have to deal with consequences if I didn’t choose to follow, but there is always a choice"


Negative, millions if not billions of people everyday hand over their power without even being consciously aware of the fact they're doing so. In a world where most of the population isn't even consciously awake to the events going on around them, it can hardly be considered a rarity...

Streen wrote:

Manu wrote:

Streen wrote: The only power any of us has is to be who we are.

This is one of those abstract zen-like statements that on surface appears to be deep and meaningful. But in reality this tells me nothing. What do you mean?

That depends. What does it mean to you?

I guess I could try to come up with a variety of ways to explain this, all slanted by my own bias. More importantly, what did YOU mean by it?

Mag Nashira wrote: Manu wrote:
You should reply in the bullying thread and gun control threads with this insight. After all, if power over others is an illusion, then bullying is an illusion and guns are pointless, no?

My response: The gun part is a good argument. However, even at gun point we have a choice. People have survived hold ups. People have chosen to fight back. It is difficult, even with a gun, to hit a moving target. Also, what happens if the person they pulled a gun on has a gun too?

Power does not mean complete control over something/someone. Only a greater influence, increasing the likelihood of said influence factoring into the choice of "free" people. Hitler never owned the wills of the Germans, but he leveraged his leadership skills and the power of force to expand his reach throughout Europe.

Power is often confused with control.

To control something is to have power over it.
To have power is the ability to affect change or influence.
People relinquish power to others. You cannot tell me what to do or make me do anything. I always have the option to resist. But, if I relinquish that power to you, then you can control me. And I will comply with the power I give you.

Many times violence and force are confused. When someone claiming to have power uses violence to get what they desire, they are in violation with natural law. When someone used force to resist violence, they are in accordance with natural law.

So having power over something is the ability to influence it. We all have power over our own destinies and futures. Having control is an illusion of self-importance based on the relinquishing of another’s individual power. That control is based only on another’s willful compliance. And thus, not truly under your power. Forcing your will on another through “force” is a violent act (violence) that shows the lack of control and individual actually has and thus lack of true power and should not be confused with force.

Personal power is what we should all look to develop as we grow and mature in our roles in the universe. Control is something we should look to avoid as it is the violent force of one will over another and strips the individual of personal freedoms.

I find it interesting that power is something we discuss as being wielded, but we also proclaim to be "instruments" of peace. I have always considered power to be exerted by the Force in order to achieve balance, and we are the instruments used to exert that power. I believe this mainly because regardless of the amount of power we believe we wield, it will always pale in comparison to the power of the Force. Even as we grapple with the threat of nuclear annihilation, this means little in the grand scheme of the universe. We see a few "powerful" men with fingers on the nuclear button and we fear that they may misuse this power, but this is a selfish way of looking at our own existence. Somewhere at this very moment there is a star going supernova that will swallow an entire solar system's worth of planets, some which may contain life. This is the way of the universe and the will of the Force.

I do not see this as an excuse to abuse any power or control we may be granted, but rather a reason to understand that any power or control we believe we have can be taken away in the very next moment. With power comes responsibility, but only to the extent that utilizing this power impacts others in a positive or negative way. Therefore, it is best to use what power we may wield to perform right action according to Natural Law right here and right now, and then let that power or control go. Using influence, power, or control as an instrument of the Force in order to achieve harmony and balance is the mission of a Jedi. Lusting after power for self gain or recognition goes against what it is to be Jedi.

Power is simply potential for influence. One's sphere of influence can be expanded or contracted depending on ones personal ambitions for power. As jedi there is a certain amount of power that one should and IMHO must cultivate to be effective.

The first being the power over the self. Stoics argue that this is the only real power anyone can have. The power of ones choices and views. Ultimately the only thing truly under your power is your outlook, and even this is fleeting as it can be effected by mental instability. You may not be able to control your environment, but you can certainly control your outlook on a given situation.

The second is power over your immediate surroundings. This too a jedi should seek to find ways to increase. There is no way to totally be in control of your environment, but through training a jedi is able to influence it with increasing degrees of efficiency. Learning firstaid will allow you to have greater control during a medical emergency. Learning survival skills will increase your likelihood of surviving a disaster. Learning how to verbally deescalate a violent situation will increase your power given one of life's most powerless situations. Having the fitness and techniques necessary to defend yourself or others if those skills fail. These are all skills that will increase your sphere of influence in the world directly surrounding you.

The third type of power is the power by proxy. Having power over another and having them exert your will. This included the kind of power that is found in government and gangs. This is not in and of itself a bad sort of power, but it is the easiest to do bad with because you cannot see how it is being implemented. In this, your sphere of influence is extended beyond yourself and your surroundings to no limit. The further you remove your power from yourself, the harder it is to control.

This sort of social power is not necessarily bad. It allows society of function. The government needs to exert power to make roads. Pay workers. Instruct youth. However this is also the kind of power that invades nations. Simply having a training curricula, rank structure and hierarchy is this at work, and it makes for a successful training environment, even for Jedi.

Power seems to mean the ability to influence. Even over one's self. As a paraplegic has no power over their body.. and a mentally ill person has little influence over their minds. Money is the primary "influence" of economics. As a strong military influences how other nations approach yours..

It all seems to be based on the ability to influence, our actions or the actions of others.. then we have to look at the mastery of power.

THAT is what's truly subjective. What does mastery of power look like? Wouldn't one have to master death to say they have reached a level of complete influence over self?.. Can you even master power over others, or is there still some degree of resistance to your influence? That would make "full spectrum dominance" an endless chase. "Mastery" in that case would be purely artificial..