I may have my answer but..

19 May 2017 23:24 - 19 May 2017 23:27 #284620 by AnubisPheonix
AnubisPheonix created the topic: I may have my answer but..
I would like to know how close I am to knowing. We all know things, and what we all know we hold as truth to ourselves. That being said, I know not everyone follows the same path..I know there are some that claim to be "Sith" out there, and am not aware if that also has become an official religion, or if it's more a roleplay community. I know that this site however, contains real life Jedi, true to the creed. Now, to get to my point, first, the Doctrine. I fully believe in the force, Source, or whatever anyone calls it. I also believe that everyone has the power to change, but many have fallen to the dark side. But the one issue I am curious on...
"In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty."


I only partially believe in part of that. I do however believe in the death penalty, to an extent...if someone kills someone, in an unjust way, they should also have the same fate. That is my personal belief, So my question then becomes, can I truly be a JEDI? Or must I forge my own Jedi path? This..I saw this...and wondered even further...

In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures

Second, I guess what I am saying is, I lean more towards what a "grey" Jedi would be considered, if they exist in our world, outside of the fiction. I do believe in having emotions..and I believe that the force always balances itself out...( I believe in the law of the universe known as the Law of Attraction).and I also believe in living out your dreams, whatever they may be, even if some of that includes becoming "famous" or well known, and becoming financially free (rich). I also believe in living out life, while still helping others, but not also neglecting ourselves. So, I wonder, does this mean these beliefs could disqualify me from being trained and mentored here by a Jedi "Master"? Many questions I have...many answers I seek.

May the Force Be With You.
Last Edit: 19 May 2017 23:27 by AnubisPheonix.
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19 May 2017 23:38 - 19 May 2017 23:42 #284621 by JamesSand
JamesSand replied the topic: I may have my answer but..
Good Morning,

I am neither a knight nor a priest here, so my views are less so the views of TotJO and moreso the views of Zorg Industries....


I only partially believe in part of that. I do however believe in the death penalty, to an extent...if someone kills someone, in an unjust way, they should also have the same fate. That is my personal belief, So my question then becomes, can I truly be a JEDI? Or must I forge my own Jedi path? This..I saw this...and wondered even further...


Many have this view, many are members here. It is probably one of the more contentious parts of the doctrine.

(Easy for me, my country doesn't have the death penalty, so whether I believe in it or not is immaterial)

For the sake of thought I might ask "Who has the right to deliver the death penalty? Some sort of court system, or the family of the the victim? What constitutes a crime worthy of oblivion? and, the hot-button
issue "What if the person/body carrying out the sentence is wrong?"

Also, once one person has been killed, killing their killer doesn't bring them back. Vengeance is not necessarily Justice.

I suspect those questions are why TotJO and many Jedi oppose the death penalty - it's just a "safer" ethical stance to take. (At an individual level anyway. At a Management level, the death penalty makes a lot of sense - Play by the rules, or be expunged. Kind of a medieval Ban-Hammer :P )




As for the second part - I don't think I understand your question?
Jedi have emotions. Comes with the meatsacks they live in. It's just a matter of taking the time to analyse and understand them, not necessarily deny them.

Nothing you said (as I read it) related to a restriction on freedom of conscience and self determination?
Last Edit: 19 May 2017 23:42 by JamesSand.

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19 May 2017 23:40 - 19 May 2017 23:44 #284622 by Br. John
Br. John replied the topic: I may have my answer but..
To Anyone: Unless you've been on a jury and sentenced someone to death or been an executioner, you don't know for sure if you believe in the Death Penalty. You may believe you believe in it but it's not been put to the test.

People commit unjust murders all the time and don't get the death penalty. Indeed, there's no such thing as a just murder though there is such a thing as justifiable homicide. Very few people who are convicted of killing someone get the Death Penalty.

Even in Texas if you decide you want to murder someone and you walk up to them and kill them you cannot get the Death Penalty (DP). That's right, even Texas does not have the DP for murder.

Capital Murder is another story. I digress.

I'll bet you real money I can prove you don't believe in the DP as it's used in actual practice as opposed to theory. Let me know if you want to go through it and we'll make a special topic just for you and me. It will involve questions and answers and some going back and forth.

Founder of The Order

"A false Friend and a Shadow attend only while the Sun shines." ~ Poor Richard
Last Edit: 19 May 2017 23:44 by Br. John.
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19 May 2017 23:42 #284623 by AnubisPheonix
AnubisPheonix replied the topic: I may have my answer but..
I know lol. I was just asking because the other Jedi Order I was once a part of was so strict that you had to do this and that in order to qualify yourself, and you HAD TO BELIEVE this way..all of it...I reserve no judgement on them, and only send them love. As for emotions, yes we all have them. I know only to not let them control us. We are the masters of ourselves and no one truly masters themselves, only in death, when we become free and part of the force again.


Again, I must unlearn what I learned over there, and only ask to inquire about these things.

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19 May 2017 23:44 #284624 by AnubisPheonix
AnubisPheonix replied the topic: I may have my answer but..
A challenge of wits, then? :P( that was a joke lol) I take thee up on that offer...as I always want to evolve my mindset....and learning is also seeing the world through another's eyes too.

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19 May 2017 23:47 #284625 by JamesSand
JamesSand replied the topic: I may have my answer but..

I'll bet you real money I can prove you don't believe in the DP as it's used in actual practice as opposed to theory. Let me know if want to go through it and we'll make a special topic just for you and me. It will involve questions and answers and some going back and forth.


Well mate, I'm interested just for the sake of dispelling myths.

I've never stayed longer than I had to in countries with certain laws (or lack thereof), nor have I spent longer than necessary reading up on USA laws - If you want to share some good info to help us foreigners get a sensible view of the practices, I think there could be value in it

(Most of what I know the USA I learned from The Simpsons....):dry:
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19 May 2017 23:49 #284626 by AnubisPheonix
AnubisPheonix replied the topic: I may have my answer but..
Yes, perhaps Br. John can add you to the discussion just for the sake of learning, as that is what we are all on...a path of learning..

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19 May 2017 23:57 #284627 by Br. John
Br. John replied the topic: I may have my answer but..

AnubisPheonix wrote: A challenge of wits, then? :P( that was a joke lol) I take thee up on that offer...as I always want to evolve my mindset....and learning is also seeing the world through another's eyes too.


Let me make sure I understand your position. There are countries where a person can get the DP for adultery, blasphemy or selling certain drugs. You don't agree with the DP in those circumstances, right? As I understand you believe the DP should be for unjustly killing someone, right? Please correct me or clarify your position as needed.

Founder of The Order

"A false Friend and a Shadow attend only while the Sun shines." ~ Poor Richard
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20 May 2017 00:06 #284628 by Br. John
Br. John replied the topic: I may have my answer but..

AnubisPheonix wrote: Yes, perhaps Br. John can add you to the discussion just for the sake of learning, as that is what we are all on...a path of learning..


We'll just try and do it all here. I can't remember how to start a new topic. We can probably keep it confused with quotes. Hopefully we can preserve disorder.

Founder of The Order

"A false Friend and a Shadow attend only while the Sun shines." ~ Poor Richard
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20 May 2017 09:28 - 20 May 2017 09:29 #284653 by Tarran
Tarran replied the topic: I may have my answer but..

Br. John wrote: We'll just try and do it all here. I can't remember how to start a new topic. We can probably keep it confused with quotes. Hopefully we can preserve disorder.


If you don't mind, Master Jedi, and if AnubisPheonix also sees no problem, I forsee a beautiful opportuity to watch and learn - I cannot speak for everyone, but if you both are willing, I promise to observe without interfering/tangentializing/derailing the discussion.

With Immense Respect,

- Tarran ^_^
Last Edit: 20 May 2017 09:29 by Tarran.
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