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What is the stance on killing?
Did you do the killing? Would the house, shoes, or what have you exist with or without your purchase? The answer to both is yes. So its not the same. Further animals do indeed kill for comfort, they will take territory and drive competition out of areas and take better dens when they can. So these are natural actions and not the same as killing just to kill. Life should not be ended just to end it and human life inherently has more worth to me than any animal. Further coming up with more ways to prevent needless slaughter are something we should work for. ( For example synthetic materials and lab-grown meats.) Just my views and you need not hold them. I do not think there is objective right or wrong here. Well except in murder and senseless killing but even that some people would argue.JamesSand wrote:
With that outlook, you would never do so callously, wastefully, or without being sure there was no other option to ensure survival that you could take.
Survive?
I can survive without shoes, but an animal (possibly several) died for my preference in footwear.
Same goes for much of my diet, and clothing. I am quite sure many creatures died or were displaced for the conveniance of me having nice warm white lighting in my parlour.
My comfort soars high above my survival when it comes to things dying (directly or indirectly) by my decisions.
The step from those things being Cows or what-have-you to being Humans is not much to me (obviously it's a big deal to many)
Whether or not I take a moment to appreciate the life of whatever died for my benefit each morning as is of no use to either that creature, or it's loved ones if any.
I don't believe in killing "for giggles" - I'm not one to tear the wings off flies or set fire to cats, but nothing you've said persuades me that killing is inherently bad.
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
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You can try to tell yourself a bunch of stories to sleep well at night, but not matter how humane you are about it, consuming an animal (or plant!) for food will always feel cruel for the animal. As in any other situation, we need to make a choice and accept the consequences.
Being practical, I strive to live in a manner that I would like others to live in, even if lions devour meat-eaters and vegans alike. That involves not killing others for fun.
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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Justin wrote: Yet our current system is no better. Look about us. Criminals go free on minor sentences and sometimes do even worse. to many times innocent people...children die or are harmed because people don't change in prision.
Our system is no better? Crime has been on a downward trend in most nations for over a decade now. We are far less violent and far more crimes get solved now. So our system is objectively better. Further just because some people do not change does not mean the system is failed. Nothing is 100%.
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
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Did you do the killing? Would the house, shoes, or what have you exist with or without your purchase? The answer to both is yes. So its not the same.
Would they exist in the sense that this particular pair of shoes was already on the shelf when I bought them? Of course - but that is just a matter of convenience.
I desired leather shoes, had they not been already available I would have contracted their manufacture.
The foresight and business acumen of someone who planned ahead for that eventuality does not absolve me of the responsibility that, through my desire and financing, something was killed.
If you prefer, I've got meat and a rug that died by my hand (It's not a people-skin rug, I'll grant, although that would be a fantastic talking point for guests)
Briefly on "last ditch survival" -
If it comes to killing, I hope to kill my opponent long before it comes to "last ditch"
Probably at the first ditch.
As soon as ditches become involved I'm happy to, how do they say it? Neutralise with kinetic effectors?
My life is certainly not worth more than any other in strictly objective terms, but I reserve the right to lack any objectivity at all when it comes to self preservation (fortunately, as discussed previously, this is supported by most phrasings of "self defence")
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Justin wrote: I beg to differ. all Jail time is provide boredom and more Criminals to learn different ways of doing ways from
Yet the result is a less violent society with a higher rate of crimes being solved. So how can you beg to differ? You might not think the punishment is fitting. But by the numbers the systems works.
JamesSand wrote:
My life is certainly not worth more than any other in strictly objective terms, but I reserve the right to lack any objectivity at all when it comes to self preservation (fortunately, as discussed previously, this is supported by most phrasings of "self defence")
While much of what you said is something we will not agree on and its all a matter of opinion let me address this last part.
I have to say that your life is objectively worth more than say Hitlers. He caused pain, misery, and death to millions and plunged the world into chaos. You likely add more good than harm you cause. This by pure math means your life is worth more than his.
Knight of the Order
Training Master: Jestor
Apprentices: Lama Su, Leah
Just a pop culture Jedi doing what I can
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I have to say that your life is objectively worth more than say Hitlers. He caused pain, misery, and death to millions and plunged the world into chaos. You likely add more good than harm you cause. This by pure math means your life is worth more than his.
Sooo......If Hitler stole $20?.....:laugh: :silly:
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Self defense and defense of another are by my philosophy, acceptable. However the use of deadly force must be the absolute last option.
The death penalty is 100% against my philosophy.
I advocate for adoption over abortion since preserving life is important, but I will always respect any woman's choice regardless.
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I advocate for adoption over abortion since preserving life is important,
On a grander scale, I suspect every baby that is not born saves more life than is lost.
We all know the old railway track switching problem, of which I suppose this is an odd derivative.
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I advocate for adoption over abortion since preserving life is important,
Adoption Homes and Buildings are overflowing as is nor are they favorable / good / healthy / clean places for children to grow up in. I advocate terminating a pregnancy to a certian term rather than subjecting a child to that sort of life.
But I also Advocate better Sex Safety Classes and lessons in home, school and public places too. So....one should balance out the other if employed accurately

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