A Jedi Retreat/Temple

Anison wrote: I am fully aware that there are complications and we would face many hardships but do we not have the goal of making this Order fully realized in the world? I see no better way of doing that then constructing/buying some place we can call our Temple.

Personally, I think learning to be your best Jedi self, and learning to serve others, even outside the community, is a better realization of the Order. A building would only serve ourselves, and even then, not even the whole Order, but only a localized few. Using our resources to train people to be what a Jedi should represent is a much more noble endeavor.

Anison wrote: It does not have to be some grand place like you see in the movies or my profile cover image. It could start as some land or small building located as near to as many current Jedi as possible that requires little upkeep and financing.

If we look to the movies for example, just remember that Yoda and Obi-Wan saved the galaxy from a desert cave and a swamp, while the Temple sat in ruins.

Anison wrote: If the leadership of this order is looking for motivation other than simply having a Temple for the Temple of the Jedi Order (which should be enough) then consider the growth this order would experience if we had a place people could go and actually see the Order. People disconnect with our reality because, other than donations, this Order is a website. A forum. While I recognize that has served the Order well I think it is beyond time for that next step to be made. That next step is some type of crowdfunding to purchase whatever we are able to in the most convenient location possible. I think if we put all of our effort and as much money as we can afford to into this endeavor that it is well within our reach.

When they went to "see the Order" they wouldn't be seeing the actual Order, just a very small representation of it. Also, I think the leadership is more concerned with keeping training open to anybody across the world. Even the Council is spread across the globe. However, you're incorrect here in one regard. Yes, this is a forum, a website. But I have made real connections here that would last even if TOTJO were to go down tomorrow. People here care about each other--we're more than just a forum. We ARE a community. We communicate in other ways. I've had phone calls, video chats, and even plan to travel to meet my fellows. There are meetups and sub groups that get together. Communication and training do go beyond what you see on this site.

Anison wrote: I have spoken to another member, an Initiate, that believes as I do on this matter. They told me of something I fear may be the case. Namely: Keyboard Jedi. That many members of this Order might be here simply because it requires no real action. To account for this, the IP requires a lot of time be dedicated before one can achieve a higher rank than "member" (and even that has a waiting period). While this is the only way to account for this issue as things are currently set up it still allows for that same issue to remain. You have only shifted the work from physical action to some time management, reviewing, writing, and critical thinking (all of which are important but are simply not enough). Think of how a temple could radically change this. Maybe not at first, but eventually the ranks could be assigned based on real action and the showmanship of Jedi values in the real world. The way Jedi should train, both mentally and physically. This would yield far better Jedi than a website ever can or could.

This is awesome, but what small percentage would be able to take part? What if they built the Temple near Br. John in Texas? I can't afford to move across the country. I have a job, I have obligations, and to be honest, I'm poor. We're not just people sitting around at a computer all day with nothing better to do. We do this in addition to what we already have. There are people here with children. Should they have to travel hundreds or thousands of miles? How will they feed their families? Does this need to discount them from training? What about Jedi from other countries? Having to get a visa to study there. Would the government even recognize that as a valid reason to grant a visa? How could they put their lives on hold for that long? What if the training lasts longer than their visa? I can see the advantages of what you say, but in my opinion the disadvantages far outweigh them. In the meantime, we can use what we have, and borrow physical training from others. As for showmanship of Jedi values in the real world, that's up to teaching masters. Training here goes beyond the IP, and often becomes personal. You have not yet seen anything of seminary or apprenticeship.

Anison wrote: No great thing starts as such. This Order seems to be crawling. I think it is time for it to get up and try to walk. It will be baby steps at first, and they won't be easy steps but as is the case in life, the best work is hard work.

You're right. No great thing starts as such. The thing is, in many ways, this Order is already great. One small building would detract, rather than add, to that greatness, I think. If leadership were focused on physical training, maintenance, etc. at the Temple, the rest of the community--the majority, would lose attention. I can't see any good reason to attempt to build a temple at this time. It simply wouldn't benefit the Order enough.

I think we all think about this from time to time. There is a monestary not too far from my home. I sometimes imagine the lottery win that allows me to move in and make it a home for us...

But, let us consider a few things. We are a community, perhaps a culture, without any centralized leadership. That fact makes these sort of large scale projects very difficult. We often lok at that feature of our community as a weakness, but I do not believe it is.

We are decentralized. We are a net. I think we might consider using our strengths rather than fighting against them. Nothing stops us from making temporary temples for a few days at a time. Consider why you think this is a desriable goal. Why do you need a Temple? You , personally.

A temple, even a truly grand Temple, will not make our community great. Great individual Jedi, providing excellent example, committed to learning and service, will make our culture great.

Make of yourself a Temple, Anison. You may find the brick and mortar less important then.

I should say, however, that I appreciate enthusiasm. I might give one piece of unsolicited advice. A community such as our own benefits from leaders who lead from the front, not those who make demands.

Don't tell us what we should already have built for you. You can already see that it gets you nowhere.

If you want to do something, commit yourself. If people believe in it, they will follow.

If you want it, build it... and they will come. In other words, be the leader you are asking for in others.

Anison wrote: If you are going to label me as the new kid with lofty ideas then go ahead and do that and move on. I for one am in total shock that this has been around for more than a decade and no real, visible attempt has been made at the creation of a Temple.

I am fully aware that there are complications and we would face many hardships but do we not have the goal of making this Order fully realized in the world? I see no better way of doing that then constructing/buying some place we can call our Temple. It does not have to be some grand place like you see in the movies or my profile cover image. It could start as some land or small building located as near to as many current Jedi as possible that requires little upkeep and financing.

If the leadership of this order is looking for motivation other than simply having a Temple for the Temple of the Jedi Order (which should be enough) then consider the growth this order would experience if we had a place people could go and actually see the Order. People disconnect with our reality because, other than donations, this Order is a website. A forum. While I recognize that has served the Order well I think it is beyond time for that next step to be made. That next step is some type of crowdfunding to purchase whatever we are able to in the most convenient location possible. I think if we put all of our effort and as much money as we can afford to into this endeavor that it is well within our reach.

I have spoken to another member, an Initiate, that believes as I do on this matter. They told me of something I fear may be the case. Namely: Keyboard Jedi. That many members of this Order might be here simply because it requires no real action. To account for this, the IP requires a lot of time be dedicated before one can achieve a higher rank than "member" (and even that has a waiting period). While this is the only way to account for this issue as things are currently set up it still allows for that same issue to remain. You have only shifted the work from physical action to some time management, reviewing, writing, and critical thinking (all of which are important but are simply not enough). Think of how a temple could radically change this. Maybe not at first, but eventually the ranks could be assigned based on real action and the showmanship of Jedi values in the real world. The way Jedi should train, both mentally and physically. This would yield far better Jedi than a website ever can or could.

No great thing starts as such. This Order seems to be crawling. I think it is time for it to get up and try to walk. It will be baby steps at first, and they won't be easy steps but as is the case in life, the best work is hard work.

If anyone would like to contact me directly on this matter please feel free to. If you would like to leave a public reply I also encourage that. However, I ask that you do not give me the same reasons it supposedly can't happen I have already heard today. No great thing is easy. A Jedi of all people should realize this.

The Order has at least one get together every year (usually during the summer) in The UK. Should the group be expecting you to attend this year?

I think for me it would be low on my priority list. I see all these "monuments" to various gods, such as the Crystal Cathedral, and think of the costs. It would just seem like a vanity project to spend $50 million on a temple, when that same $50 million could be used building things like free kitchens, shelters, educational centers, etc. To me, the church, temple, or whatever it would be is where the people are. That could be the corner McDonalds a street corner, or a park. I think it would tend to do exactly what it's done with other religions, turn into a symbol of excess.

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for your responses. I have gained insight on many things from most of them.

To those that have made efforts or have presented locations for fellow Jedi to come you keep my hope alive and I thank you.

However, I do believe I said something like "I ask that you do not give me the same reasons it supposedly can't happen I have already heard". Many of the responses were comprised of these reasons/excuses it can't/hasn't happened. Again, it will not be easy. Would its' location be an issue? Yes, always. Would it be hard to finance? Yes, always. These are things that well-known religions that have been around for centuries still fight with today. We have many disadvantages compared to them but that would only make our victory more rewarding.

I would also like to say that there was no intent of malice or negativity in my post. Being driven to achieve something others have not can yield this response that I am somehow mad that they have not. This is not the case. I want insight on why it has not happened so that if I decide that this Order is a place from which, with the appropriate rank/status, I can build a Temple I won't blindly walk into the same problems that have arisen before. Again, the responses here have helped me notice them and I thank you all for pointing them out. Though again, I realize location and financing would be an issue. That is obvious.

I can not pretend I have not wondered if there is a higher possibility of succeeding in this endeavor on my own, at least at first. As a couple of you said (and in more simplified wording) "do it yourself". Clearly, I would not have taken the time to write all of this if I was not prepared to. Though if you think it would be hard for this Order to do it it shouldn't be hard to imagine how much harder it would be for me to alone. If this is the path I decide to take and am fortunate enough to be able to go through with it, I hope that I will be able to call on this Order to help me when I need it.

I have a lot to think about. I am in love with the vibrancy of this community. For now, I will seek to learn as much as I can about Jediism through the materials available here. I will improve on my patience and one day perhaps myself and like minded individuals will reach a position from which we can make our wildest dreams come true. Until then I would like to leave those kind enough to read this with one of my favorite quotes from the Star Wars universe and possibly one of the most controversial. It is from one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi in that universe, Obi-Wan.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Kenobi

Anison wrote: However, I do believe I said something like "I ask that you do not give me the same reasons it supposedly can't happen I have already heard".

You can say whatever you want. What you really mean is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of why this hasn't happened yet. You don't know how often or how long this has been discussed, you don't know what kind of infrastructure would be required to acquire and maintain even the smallest permanent site, nor the logistics necessary to staff or finance it. You didn't bring a plan, you didn't offer suggestions, you didn't even really give reasons why it's necessary.

All you did was barge in and tell us that we can't possibly be serious about this because we haven't solved this "problem" yet.

Do some legwork and realize why we haven't before you dismiss "the same reasons" you've heard before. Those reasons exist because they're good ones.

In our IP we learn that a temple is just architecture of the spirit. A closet and a cathedral hold equal value in the spiritual sense, as the spirit is not part of this world, but within. Having a physical temple would be nifty and fun to go see, but at this stage of the Order, it's just too soon. For now we make do with what we have and strive for a better tomorrow.

My temple is here and deep within myself, with me at all times.

I've been to massive cathedrals with centuries of history, and I've been to churches that were just an apartment. Where you seek to better yourself can become a temple, just as wherever you work out can be considered a gym. It's not a matter of location or money. The Order sees no sense in making a physical Temple at this stage, just as the early Christian Church did not make physical churches until much later, instead meeting and fellowshiping with their fellow man.

The annual gathering does sound interesting. I personally will make efforts towards going this year, but no promises until I'm in a more financially stable time of my life.

Peace, and may the Force be with you.

I posted this earlier Anison, but in case you missed it I'll post it again. The Order has an annual gathering in The UK (usually in the summertime) every year. Should the group expect you to attend this year?

Anison wrote: However, I do believe I said something like "I ask that you do not give me the same reasons it supposedly can't happen I have already heard".

To be fair, you didn't really specify what you had heard.

Anison wrote: Many of the responses were comprised of these reasons/excuses it can't/hasn't happened. Again, it will not be easy. Would its' location be an issue? Yes, always. Would it be hard to finance? Yes, always. These are things that well-known religions that have been around for centuries still fight with today. We have many disadvantages compared to them but that would only make our victory more rewarding.

My response contended that a concrete TOTJO location would not actually be a victory.

Anison wrote: I can not pretend I have not wondered if there is a higher possibility of succeeding in this endeavor on my own, at least at first. As a couple of you said (and in more simplified wording) "do it yourself". Clearly, I would not have taken the time to write all of this if I was not prepared to. Though if you think it would be hard for this Order to do it it shouldn't be hard to imagine how much harder it would be for me to alone. If this is the path I decide to take and am fortunate enough to be able to go through with it, I hope that I will be able to call on this Order to help me when I need it.

It is not the mission of this Order to build a location. It should be fairly obvious by now that the majority of leadership and members here are more interested in building people rather than structures.

Anison wrote: I have a lot to think about. I am in love with the vibrancy of this community. For now, I will seek to learn as much as I can about Jediism through the materials available here. I will improve on my patience and one day perhaps myself and like minded individuals will reach a position from which we can make our wildest dreams come true.

I hope you do!

This will be my last post about this. It seems to have had a counterproductive, unintended effect. I am saddened by this because I only meant well.

I will start with steamboat28: Primarily, I would urge you to be careful of what state your mind is in when you post.

What you really mean is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of why this hasn't happened yet.

I have not misunderstood a thing. I understand it completely and have done research on both this site and the internet as a whole.

You don't know how often or how long this has been discussed

I have seen some of the dated forum posts. Like I said, it surprises me how long it has been discussed.

you don't know what kind of infrastructure would be required to acquire and maintain even the smallest permanent site, nor the logistics necessary to staff or finance it. You didn't bring a plan, you didn't offer suggestions, you didn't even really give reasons why it's necessary.

Details at this point, at least for me, are unnecessary. I am not of a rank (at this time) with the kind of influence where a plan and finite details are useful to post. So instead, I wish to simply keep the conversation alive. Though, as I mentioned above I did not intend for it to take the turn it has. The very last part of this statement is incorrect. I have.

All you did was barge in

I do not view what I have done as barging in. Registering here and starting to become involved has taken some time and thought. Of which, I am sure there is to be much more of.

All you did was barge in and tell us that we can't possibly be serious about this because we haven't solved this "problem" yet.

I think that you are all very serious and it is a part of why I joined. Look at what you all have done. It is no small feat and I envy it.

Do some legwork and realize why we haven't before you dismiss "the same reasons" you've heard before. Those reasons exist because they're good ones.

"Legwork" is an ironic way of putting it but I get your point. I am doing and have been doing research into this. Yes, I realize these are all good reasons. I am not dismissing them. Though as I stated, there will always be good reasons.

Arisaig:
I agree with you completely. The temple, first and foremost, should be of the mind and body. However, as this website has forged a strong community with deep ties, can you imagine the exponential effect a physical Temple would have on this? That idea is what drives me on this topic.

Br. John:
I sent you a private message about this. Though I am sure your inbox must be a busy one so I will answer here as well. Firstly, I would like to thank you for pointing this out to me. I am sure the invitation is open to all but to have a high ranking member such as yourself point it out to me is gratifying since I am sure you have many other things to attend to. Unfortunately, I live in the southeastern United States and am in college. I will make my best attempt to make it. I would love to meet fellow members face to face. That is part of the allure of a Temple in my opinion.

(This is directed to all reading this.) Before it happens, do not use my reasoning for possibly not being able to make it to the meet as an example regarding the Temple. If I am not able to make it, I will still gladly donate what I can to help the meet happen. I plan on donating anyways.

Gwinn:

To be fair, you didn't really specify what you had heard.

I do not need to specify. Anyone who has done their research into this matter knows what the typical reasons are.

My response contended that a concrete TOTJO location would not actually be a victory.

I completely disagree and am confused as to why you think a real Temple would not be a victory for us.

It is not the mission of this Order to build a location. It should be fairly obvious by now that the majority of leadership and members here are more interested in building people rather than structures.

We should always be more focused on building people rather than buildings themselves. What would a Temple be without true Jedi to station it? I think we already have true Jedi though. From here, the Temple is a means to that end. To better ourselves and others as best we can. There is no better way to do that than in person at a place built/acquired for that purpose.


As my subject for this post states, I will not be responding again. The original post has caused the opposite of what I intended and it seems my efforts are not helping it recover. I only meant to keep the idea alive and get us all thinking on its' possibility again. To any who might agree with me on this rest assured I am not giving up on it. Whether it is with this Orders help or without I will do the best I can to make it happen. Even if I fail, I will be glad I tried.

Alright sir,

Reasons have been given as to why this has not happened, but you don't seem to mind those. We could probably get through them with a bit of tenacity don't you think?

Well then, what would be the first step?

As a new person here myself, I too would like to see a physical temple of some kind. I don't bring it up too often because of the backlash I've seen the topic get from the community, but I can't say they are all wrong in saying it's not time.

One argument I've seen is that we're too sparsely populated to have a temple be of any use. That's true in most ways, but I have the opinion that if you get one or two charismatic people who know the TOTJO doctrine to attend and open the temple to the public for speeches, demonstrations, guided meditations and the like you would slowly start to develop a member base in that area that would grow rather large.

Funding is a real concern for everybody, hell I can barely afford groceries. What I've seen many people seem to misunderstand is that the temple should be beautiful, but it does not need to start off that way. You can rent commercial property for a few thousand a month or less depending on the area. While that seems like a lot for one person, a communal effort would make this very affordable. Even more so if apparel and other materials were sold in store. Cranking up the old youtube channel would also be a great stream of revenue and popularity, and while many members here already post great content, I know there is more to be done on that front that I would be happy to get into eventually when I'm more qualified to speak on such matters.

Another argument I've seen against the Idea of a physical temples is that it would be self serving instead of helping the community. That's not necessarily incorrect, but I'm a believer that a future temple could have a dual use to bring people from that community into Jediism while also hosting food drives, blanket/water drives, and other charitable acts through the attendees and word of mouth. A totally isolated temple has its appeal, but I agree that it wouldn't do anybody any good and we should instead keep our focus on things that will more directly help people like our mission tends to state ( I'm not an expert). Maybe a retreat style temple could be considered once we have the infrastructure and populace needed to pull off such a thing without our various charities suffering, but it would be quite a while.

I know it's hard to have a great picture of what things can look like in a perfect world, it's something I am constantly thinking about. It's just a bit far off from being a reality at this point. What I'm reading from some of these posts is that people aren't necessarily against the Idea of physical temples for the long term and I think that's great. As annoying as this topic might be for some people who have been here a while, I hope it keeps getting brought up.

Well, why don't those of us who want a physical temple begin to plan what it might look like and where it might be and all of the logistics of it

I would caution us though that the Jedi and Jediism in general is not an original idea. We need to tread lightly on the intellectual property of Disney as it relates to copyright or we will be sued before we can get off the ground

It sounds super exciting and interesting, having a hidden, peaceful place of gathering for quiet training and meditation would be amazing. But I do think the entire world is our "temple", from my viewpoint anyway. Still, a quiet safe-haven for us to study and meditate in would be great.

I've just recently become a part of Jediism, so I've heard that Disney and George Lucas could do some things to us, but I'm just unsure just how far they could go. Is "jedi" a trademark that could come back to us if we try to sell merch or brand a building? I am a bit foggy on that whole situation.

JamesSand wrote: For what it's worth Anison,

This Member has established a lovely little temple in central Australia. It has a comfy room for sleeping, another for private contemplation, somewhere to prepare and enjoy delicious meals, and even a spot to conduct a little physical exercise. It has a Garden with herbs and some staples.

It's all round quite lovely actually.

I know that's not what you want, but you can imagine as a humble fellow living in the *deep south*, neither uprooting myself to assist, or sending my resources to a far away land to build some a Temple has little appeal

I do admire your fervour though, and would be keen to see your research on available land and building designs in a location of best fit (I believe there is a user map somewhere that could be a guide)

God I hate ANT threads.

As JamesSand has stated in his post, some members here have created their own small-scale local temples. I'm in the process of saving up for and finding a contractor to build a small monastery made up of several individual cabins and land for homesteading.

It's not going to be TOTJO branded though, because reasons.

Reason 1: I'm not clergy here
Reason 2: I'm not a knight, or apprentice
Reason 3: TOTJO doesn't endorse or encourage monastic practice as part of it's overall faith structure
Reason 4: I'm funding the project, so I don't want a bureaucratic mess (TOTJO politics) interfering with the design I've chosen should I choose to brand it within the TOTJO legal identity.
Reason 5: Nobody seems to want to support a temple project unless its literally in their backyard.

Most who have been Jedi for a while and have used that time to study the Force deeply don't feel we need a physical Temple. If this were not the case, we'd have one. The barriers are not so insurmountable.

Given the time and effort which will be required to set one up, why not first go through that same process yourself, and discover whether there is a reason for that incredibly unlikely and surprising coincidence?

(There is.)

You're hearing it, repeatedly, acknowledging it even... but you're not really seeing it. It's also the reason it's primarily very recent members of this faith who pursue this idea. A majority, I'd go so far as estimating. Yet, given time, understanding removes that desire.

You can't be told. You have been. You need to learn the reason we don't have or want a physical Temple yourself. Please, devote your time wisely.

I see a temple as something more for external development rather than internal development that can be done anywhere.