White Knight Syndrome

Dear Readers,
I have social media, loud friends, and read the news. At least once a day I hear someone jump into their moral superman onsie and try to race to the rescue of some metaphorical damsel in distress. 90% of the time I hear about it, it isn't the proper authority to do so (because if it was, it wouldn't make the front page eh?) and they end up blundering about looking well... just like an oversized chump in a superman onsie.

I know sometimes I'll try to jump in an argument on behalf of one side and interpret my understanding of that when I'm not a part of the debate. I'll don my big kid white knight armor and ride upon my hashtagged steed into battle against the obviously wrong other side to defend the silent damsels (or dudes) in distress. And for the times I've done that, I apologize.

Anyways, if you have something constructive, personal, and new to bring to the table, I'll love it. If you're jumping in on someone else's behalf, making broad generalizations, and end up straw manning your ideas, it's really a waste of both of our time.
Thanks!

Don't tell me how to live :laugh:



But seriously, outside the realm of hashtags and your social media of choice - all the white knighting and superman onsie-ing comes up to basically diddly.

I have quiet friends, no social media, and limit my news to a few key areas and once my "cup is full" I stop pouring into it -

As far as I see it - if it passes the time, go for gold spruiking issues you know nothing about, you'll only worry yourself into an early grave (or self-satisfy yourself into an unearned level of confidence).

I'll sleep peacefully either way


*dramatic spiritual cleansing breath*

Okay okay - Worry not yourself on the actions of others and focus on your own areas of responsibility.

Next time you want to rage out on an issue, read the desiderata and have a cup of tea.

I am not really sure what you mean , but i do know what annoys me ,

Very often here , someone says something and i reply , and then i am told by SOMEONE ELSE , that said person meant to say something else , and i wonder ... can they read minds , do they really know what said person is thinking or do they just want to make me look stupid because i use my brain , think further and don't take it the way they want me to take it ...

I mean , you write something , i take it another way than you expected , should not you be the one than to correct me and not someone else , who obviously thinks that , you cannot or what is this ?? ( i am using YOU as in general , anyone)

Although White Knight behaviour can sometimes come across as form of Egotistical arrogance (and indeed sometimes is just that), bear in mind that within the TOTJO it may often be a sign that someone is trying to put parts of our doctrine into practice, such as the following lines from the Knight's Code:

His blade defends the helpless;

His Shield shelters the forsaken;

One can see how we could interpret such lines to mean that we have a duty to jump in and help people who appear to be under 'attack'.

From the 16 Teachings:

14. Jedi are guardians of peace. We believe in helping all those that are in need, in whatever form, to the best of our ability.

At what point is someone deemed to be 'in need'? It's not always easy to tell when someone would welcome our support, or whether they would feel undermined or insulted by it. It often depends a lot on the individual person, too, which makes things even trickier. It's a lesson that tends to comes with time and familiarity, and as practicing Jedi, we won't always get it right...

Of course, if in any doubt, there are other, less abrasive ways of offering someone support. The 'thanks' button, or a gentle PM...

But when we do encounter it, it's often well-intentioned even if unwelcome and clumsily enacted. Just something to remember when we find ourselves on the receiving end...

Another part of our doctrine, the 21 Maxims, actually provides the perspective that we, as the potential White Knight, can use in conjunction with the call to defence, so I'll leave you with this:

Intervention: To know when not to act.

A Jedi knows how inaction can have as great an impact as action and how some of the greatest lessons are self-taught. To be a victor is also taking that victory from those you protect. A Jedi intervenes only when a Jedi's intervention is required.

I agree with V.

Thing is. In an offline setting....If I were to be walking down the street browsing the scenery only to find someone being bullied, pushed around and treated unfairly..... I would jump in and protect the one being abused. I may not know what started the bullying....but you can bet I will step between it.

What makes the online world any different? If we are not behaving as Jedi and mistreating our fellow comrades with pushy, insulting behavior. Guess what. Im jumping in, ya all can deal with it. I do not stand for bullying - I don't care what the topic is about.

But. One has to be able to determine if the bullying is out of spite and aggression. Or if its just a heated debate that both were engaging in willingly.

Unfortunately...in an online world, we do not have the luxury of seeing physical interactions with the textual words. We must all make that call and accept the consequences for it.

What I find sad though.....is more and more these days.....The behavior of defending others is being looked down upon more and more....Not just with Jedi....but all over. I was always taught being a White Knight was a good thing.

It appears my definition of ‘white knighting’ is somewhat different. I was introduced to the phrase in an article I do not remember, however the gist of it was a negative connotation. Someone ‘white knighting’ would do so for an ulterior motive, most of the time the adoration or simple gratitude they stood up for. In that, the goal of white knighting was not to help, but to receive something from the harassed.

Maybe I just got that wrong.


At any rate I strongly dislike the image of a damsel or dude in distress. It smacks of perceived helplessness to the extreme, of being at the mercy of others and I believe acting on that image reinforces it in the harassed. The biggest risk of this is not looking like a chump in a superman onesie, it’s the risk of setting a precedent, of instilling someone with the unjustified dependency of being saved.

I don’t believe in shielding others. I believe in having their back and strengthening them, if necessary, so they can fight for themselves.


As to the maxim of Intervention: This part is tricky and I’ve come to believe I should not impose my ideas or standards on others unless absolutely necessary – the line here being physical harm. This here is a forum, not a circle of people standing around us in physical proximity. It’s not the wild west either, if people cross the line, guardians like Jestor swing the mighty banhammer and *poof* offenders. I may pick sides, I may lend a helping hand, but I won’t police this place and I won’t shield people from words (and they are being shielded from insults already).

This is a place of growth and learning. Some of it is less fun but that’s part of it too and I don’t think anyone is in real danger here at any given time.

sorry.....I have not yet had my coffee.....

I think of this often when I hear people talk about being the super hero aka White Knight....


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1LASc8ewLaw

white knight is a popular internet term refering to people who "rescue" because they want to feel like and especially to be seen as an altruistic defender - its an entirely selfish rescue on their part

i first read the term in sex and relationship discussions, where it usually means a guy who indiscriminately sticks up for any attractive female without holding her to any standard of conduct, in any potentially confrontational or difficult situation

typically, white knights do not even understand the situations they interfere with

his real motive usually (but not always) being the hope that she will feel emotionally close to him for coming to her rescue and have sex with him

often such people are not even fully aware of their own motivations - they dont rationally and explicitly say to themselves "i bet this woman will have sex with me if i stick up for her" but thats really what they want

white knights also often act as barriers in the general dating scene by trying to "protect" the woman (that they want to have sex with but wont just acknowledge that and go from there) from the evil schemes of the "bad guy" who obviously is trying to pick her up

of course the women almost never actually have sex withthese guys but theyll certainly use them when convenient

the term has grown to include SJWs who run around attacking and insulting, fueled more by entitled, indignant self righteousness than any genuine desire to make society better

the perception is that they are high on their own ego and really just looking for a way to justify beating up someone else - its not unusual that they are themselves disposed towards being oppressive, tyrannical, and emotionally unstable, and they have found a way to conceptualize their own biases and rage so that they can vent those base impulses for a "righteous cause"

in both cases, their lack of awareness of their own internal motives, but most especially their lack of judgement of the external situation, coupled with their willingness to interfere with those who actually do kind of understand the situation, makes them a nuisance, and target of ridicule

Rex wrote: Anyways, if you have something constructive, personal, and new to bring to the table, I'll love it. If you're jumping in on someone else's behalf, making broad generalizations, and end up straw manning your ideas, it's really a waste of both of our time.
Thanks!

It is a public forum, people are free to say what they wish within limits of civility.

I think it's a fact of life, you take the good with the bad or just ignore it.

I think it is telling that we still use terms like "white knight" and "damsel in distress". It speaks to our continued attachment to the mythological archetypes. They both appear often enough to be nearly cliche at this point, but I believe that is because they are effective symbols for conveying the message of the myth.

White knights exist in mythology because they are a symbol of bravery, valor, and chivalry. They are selfless. They are untarnished by evil thoughts or deeds. They are pure in motive and intent. They seek justice and fight injustice where it appears. They are examples to others. They are instruments of peace. These are the virtues of the white knight that we attempt to emulate as Jedi.

The epics featuring a white knight could not be told without the damsel in distress. To demonstrate the admirable characteristics of the knight, there needs to be someone or something requiring rescue. There must be a reason for the knight to take action, otherwise there is no story, and thus there is no lesson to learn. There is little need for a white knight if there is no dangerous task requiring the special virtues and talents of said knight. They emerge out of necessity.

Knowing this, we have to temper our enthusiasm to be white knights in our own lives by understanding that not all enemies are giant fire breathing dragons. Some situations do not require a mighty steed and a sword. Not every damsel is in distress. Sometimes people need to fight their own battles in order to grow and learn. As Jedi Knights, we should emerge out of necessity as well, but step back when we are not needed.

Since this is what I understand the purpose of the white knight symbol to be, I don't think it is fair that the term has been co-opted to mean something negative. Someone blundering into a battle they have no role in is not acting as a white knight would, so it seems inaccurate to say that that someone is "white knighting" when they behave in a way that is contrary to the white knight archetype.