About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)

I really like the idea of a more active neighborhood watch type of thing.

I know that in my apartment complex we have had two series of break ins in the four years I've lived there. Both sets were only two or three break ins and the two sets were over a year apart (so five or six break ins total divided into two groupings). They both stopped as soon as signs went up warning the residents to be on the look out. Criminals don't want to have to work hard, and when there are an average of twelve people living in each building all now alert to the possibility of crime that gets harder for them.

Greater community involvement is, in my opinion, truly the best way to help curb crime.

Surveillance technology has come a long way up, and prices down so that is one way to tackle it. The benefits are increased chances of catching any offender through supply of evidence to try to prevent crime, and early detection of crime... not going to stop gun crime though. Might just need to harden up our facilities and vehicles to make them less vulnerable to small arms fire or forced entry. Release the drones with pepper spray, call Police, and go into lockdown!!!!!!!! (not in that order)
:lol:

heres a fun video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uuo_CiiPk8

Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.

Lightstrider wrote: Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/01/20/federal-jury-awards-180000-to-motorcyclist-kicked-by-cop-at-gunpoint/

"Federal Jury Awards $180,000 to Motorcyclist Kicked by Cop at Gunpoint

It took four hours for a federal jury to determine that an Oregon state trooper violated a man’s civil rights by kicking him in the chest after chasing him down in an unmarked patrol car and ramming into the man’s motorcycle, knocking him down and leaving him with a fractured rib and broken clavicle."

the rest in spoiler and its worth reading

you guys (and girls) can all be "pro cop" if you want

i am "pro-good-cop" and "anti-bad-cop" and thats what we should all be, imo

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/06/26/suicide-poised-take-entire-police-department/

California Police Underage Sex Scandal Involves 28 Officers, 5 Departments

"How she met Officer Brendan O’Brien in the first place is disturbing in and of it itself. Guap says she was working the streets as a prostitute. She says she was underage at the time, which would legally make her a victim of child sex trafficking. A pimp was chasing her down a street one day in Oakland when she saw O’Brien. “He saved me when I was 17,” Guap told CNN in a phone conversation.

“Instead of taking me to jail, we just kind of started something there, you know.”

of course you can say "well she was a hooker, so what?"

does it matter, YOU TELL ME: why or why not?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Lightstrider wrote: Was the cop trying to pull him over and the biker was just ignoring/unaware? That's crazy.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/01/20/federal-jury-awards-180000-to-motorcyclist-kicked-by-cop-at-gunpoint/

"Federal Jury Awards $180,000 to Motorcyclist Kicked by Cop at Gunpoint

It took four hours for a federal jury to determine that an Oregon state trooper violated a man’s civil rights by kicking him in the chest after chasing him down in an unmarked patrol car and ramming into the man’s motorcycle, knocking him down and leaving him with a fractured rib and broken clavicle."

the rest in spoiler and its worth reading

Warning: Spoiler!

Justin Wilkins was awarded $180,000 in what his attorney described as “a message from the community.”

But Oregon state police expressed disappointment, saying officer safety gives cops the right to kick and pull guns on citizens at a moment’s whim because every encounter is a potential “life-or-death” situation.

According to the Register-Guard:

State police, in a statement released Thursday night, said the agency “is disappointed with the (trial) outcome and feels the actions of our troopers clearly did not violate established procedures or tactics. In situations like these, officers have milliseconds to make what may be life-or-death decisions and those officers should be shielded from the liability of civil damages.

Oregon State Police Captain Rob Edwards got a pass from the jury about pulling his gun Wilkins, determining it did not violate his civil rights, even though there was no indication that Edwards posed a danger to him.

Edwards’ dash cam video shows that he was probably angered that Wilkins had passed him and continued riding, even though the cop was apparently trying to pull him over with his emergency lights, which are embedded in the Camaro’s grill.

Wilkins had come to a complete stop at a traffic light, which shows he was not purposely eluding Edwards, he just didn’t notice him through his small rear view mirror. He also said his helmet kept him from hearing the sirens.

The video shows that it was not until the cop rammed him with the patrol car, knocking him down, that Wilkins first took notice of him.

When Wilkins stood back up, the cop ordered him to get down, which he was about to do, but Edwards kicked him anyway.

But Edwards had an excuse for all of that as well.

Edwards acknowledged in his testimony that Wilkens had begun to comply with his commands when he landed the kick, but said he was unable to stop the kick because he “already had the muscles fired” in his right leg.

Edwards also said he accidentally “bumped” the back end of Wilkens’ motorcycle as a result of possible “brake fade” — a term used to describe the loss of braking power because of overheating. But Regan reminded jurors in a closing argument that a brake expert testified at trial that brake fade rarely occurs in modern brake systems.

He also did not report the use-of-force incident and claims he did not know the dash cam was recording.

The incident took place August 2, 2012 when Edwards was a lieutenant. He has since been promoted to captain.

So that’s their message to the community.

from another article
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-motorcyclist-video-20160125-story.html

"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof.

from http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-oregon-motorcyclist-video-20160125-story.html

"In the video, Edwards follows Wilkens for some time before Wilkens stops. In his lawsuit, Wilkens said he couldn’t hear the siren, and his small rearview mirror did not show the lights on the unmarked car, which are located on the car’s grille, not on its roof."

so yeah, the guy was speeding

does that make this kind of violence ok?

Silas Mercury wrote: Can we stop referring to black people as 'blacks'. it seems kind of derogatory and my girlfriend hates being referred to as 'a black' she prefers black person. Like Jewish people are jewish people not 'jews'

Being raised Jewish, my community and the rabbis and even the folks I met when I spent some time in Israel all said "Jews" or even "The Jews", and rarely if ever did I hear the term "Jewish People" being given preference. This is a nonissue for the Jews.

Yeah that's crazy. That officer totally let his anger take over his actions.

Lightstrider wrote: Yeah that's crazy. That officer totally let his anger take over his actions.

exactly - he hit someone with his car because he was angry

if he wasnt a cop that would be something like "vehicular assault with bodily injury" which and everyone would agree that the criminal was a dangerous and violent person who deserved to be punished and no one would ask how much pressure he was under at work, or what good things he might have done in the past when he was in a better mood

if this exact same kind of hit happened to a motorcycle cop, the charge would be "attempted murder on a law enforcement officer"

and the thing is, i dont believe this guy is that much of an exception, not in america

if he were, why wouldnt all those other good cops get rid of him?

how many bad apples does it take before we admit that its a serious problem?

if you have 1000 police in your city, and 1 out of every 20 is like this, then you have 50 lunatics running around with guns, who hit people with cars and kick them down because they cant control their tempers, almost every day of the week

multiply that by just five years and ask how many people got assaulted inappropriately by those fifty cops in five years?

how many people in those five years decide, as a result of personal experience, that cops are monsters?

is this what it means to be a sheep dog?

sheep act up too, and the way i see it, the guy on the motorcycle was one of the sheep

so, i dont see a sheep dog, i see a wolf in a sheep dog outfit

you want to be respected by the community?
you want to be given a fair shake by the media?
do something about the wolves in your ranks

this was kind of interesting
the cops show up at the two minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBrN-ax2eJA

Firstly - This appears to be trying to sell me something

Secondly - Minto is a goddamn hole of a place anyway* (From an objective statistical standpoint :huh: )

Thirdly - ACA (the show they use the footage from) is sensationalist crap, so there's no real integrity in their "source" for the footage.



(Strange that I'm arguing against this when it appears to be saying that Aussie cops are not bad folks.
Yes, I'm sure our laws are different and they have different approaches to certain situations, *this particular* source however is not any real indicator of that)




*My point being, the local coppers probably have a bit of experience with managing drug and alcohol related fracas, domestic violence, and the like, without panicing and aerating someone.

If you can stand to read to sludge that the ACA calls an article on this - Once the police engaged the man with the knife, they used a tazer, the tale continues that the Tazer did not fully neutralise his belligerance and they had to tackle him and restrain him (the tazing did cause him to drop the knife)

The accuracy of the article is, as always, questionable.

when the guy with the knife charged at the police car, the police backed up and drove away, drawing him away from the area where he had been attacking people

they used a taser to subdue him and he was taken into custody, alive

i posted it because it was an example of police not killing someone who was definitely violent and dangerous

in juxtaposition to the many examples we have of american police shooting people who have their hands up or are not trying to harm anyone, like this guy , who was laying on the ground with his hands up, explaining that he is a behavior therapist and that his autistic patient (sitting next to him) does not ave a gun, but a toy truck, and that there is no need to shoot anyone

when the police shot him he asked "why did you shoot me"

the officer responded "i dont know"

now, these are both single incidents and it is not fair to take any single incident and say "this is the norm"

i also dont want to simplify american law enforcement into just being "bad guys", because i dont believe that

it is complicated situation and leos definitely get too much bad press, but i believe that if we take a "big picture" view, our officers do use violence too freely - way too freely- and thats what this thread is about

now, these are both single incidents and it is not fair to take any single incident and say "this is the norm"

i also dont want to simplify american law enforcement into just being "bad guys", because i dont believe that

I don't know what the "Culture" is for USA Police - I've never been there, I've never been to a USA Police school.


I've dealt with Australian police, and they are not trained to protect the world from evil, or to act as a vaguely vigilante domestic militia force - They are trained to make money.

You can't give a ticket to a dead man.


Teach your cops that every human life is a potential source of revenue, and you'll find yourself in a peaceful wonderland

(You'll also be reluctant to cross the road at anywhere other than a specific crossing location, unless you've got $75 you just can't find a good use for)

This is a society issue. This has been going on for a very long time. The word villain comes from the word "villager". 1275-1325; Middle English vilein, vilain < Middle French < Late Latin villānus a farm servant. See villa, -an The Us vs Them mentality is going to cause a "war". We need to stop seeing this as a divisive issue. We are the police. We need the police. We need to see this as Our problem. the police work for the people and we need to get them undercontrol as much as we need to get under-control.

If people regulated themselves, then we would not need police to do it. But since we don't we need police.

This is a cultural and societal issue.

If we hate the police, we are adding to the issue.

We need to work together as a society to address the crime of the police and of the people. We all need to come together. And we need to invite the police to help solve it.

I have discussed this with many people and have the utmost respect for all Police Officers. The best way to sum this up is in my childhood the police were known as Public Safety Officers, now we refer to them as Law Enforcement Officers (some officers agreed here, mainly older generations). Maybe we as a society should think about that how to turn reverse this movement, and it may help us learn to better trust, befriend and cooperate with police better. Citizens helping in nonviolent vigilantism may not be such a bad idea. However, it is also the public's responsibility to police their community meaning holding fellow citizens (this includes the general public as well as officers) accountable for their actions. This is only a thought because there was one this weekend in Chicago already drawing protesters. I will not decide where I stand on it, until information is clearly released but food for thought.

I think police also have an issue with teenagers too. My friend and i were hanging out and his neighbors thought i was a burglar so they called the police. When the police got there they put my friend in hand cuffs in his own home and even after they found out he lived there they didnt un cuff him, were still being very disrespectful, and wouldnt give him his phone back. Even if you are innocent, you are still in danger from the police.

Imagine being shot over a piece of candy?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLzDGKp1myY

There are a lot of good things being said in this thread.

For me it's all about culture. For instance, Star Wars is part of pop(ular) culture. There are a lot of lessons that can be drawn from it which help to inform and instruct one's character. Who do we look up to? Luke? Yoda? Anakin? or Vader? SW even taught us to see the two as different men and in the end even Vader, lord of the Sith, was redeemed to the light. Salvation. Culture is kind of a programming that gives us a baseline for interacting with members of the same culture. It also, helps point out differences with people of "other" cultures.

Just as there is a culture around Washington politics that not everyone knows, it is simply by virtue of its existence as an organization that the police would naturally develop their own culture. And in that culture it is clear that they are influenced to believe a certain amount of criminal intent based on the numbers of certain demographics that they have arrested in the past. And the demographics arrested in the past make those same demographics more policed than others because the police are expecting more arrests to come from them. And this also creates a profit motive because often the dept gets money based on their stats. And their communities judge them by these stats. There is no statistic for innocent people doing the right thing; only how many people you arrest for doing the wrong thing.

Culture reinforces itself so the more they get used to locking up a certain demographic and associating them with specific patterns of crime and behavior the less they tolerate those same demographics and blame them for societal problems.

And perhaps, in their hero journey, they feel like a hero when they're locking people up so why wouldn't they get high and even addicted to that feeling and perhaps lose objectivity for when to turn on hero mode and when to relax because this person isn't a threat?

The main problem is that their training reinforces this Blue culture because the society lionizes the police like they do the military. So being critical of the police is politically untenable just as it is to criticize the military. These are things you simply cannot do in the US unless you want to be attacked. And as society protects the police they too take part in reinforcing that blue culture that seeks to erase certain demographics that their minds have associated with "bad". This is why they start acting before knowing what's going on because in their minds they already do know what's going on and their bodies carry out the sentence that their blue culture has pronounced against them.

As said earlier... if there is a clear guilty party, armed or not, that's not part of these targeted demographics they usually find some way to arrest that person without fatal injury. But with others they assume deadly force is necessary to their very survival. There are thousands upon thousands of instances where they do get it right. And that should be recognized. But it also needs to be recognized when they get it wrong so that positive changes can be made.