Toronto Pride Protest

Sometimes you have to do something drastic to get noticed. Stopping a parade is about the least disruptive, most peacefully drastic thing I can think of. I think that they should have gone to the event organizers while the event was being organized with those demands first and only made this protest IF those demands had not been met by the event, but as far as protests go I can get behind their methods this time.

I do agree that kicking out all of the police floats is the most ridiculous part of it all. All that does is create further division. That's not what they really want and it is counter productive to their own agenda. Want police and POC to stop having issues? Stop separating them. Start to work together. Something as peaceful as a Pride festival would be a great place to start. If both the police and the minorities can be equally represented and get along there then maybe they can start to get along outside of that. But separation is not the answer!

MadHatter wrote: This is why I have zero respect for the BLM movement. Frankly I wish they had all been jailed and any charges that could be were tossed at them. Who do they think they are hijacking events like this? Who do they think they are demanding anything of any one and refusing to let people have an event unless their demands are met. Sickening.

MadHatter, I understand your frustration...but, I am unsettled at your conclusion.

As always, I have mixed emotions whenever I read "opinions" about (to stay on topic) the Black Lives Matter Movement. Part of the emotion comes from me being a Black Man. So when it comes to the movement, whether I participate or not, I am (in most cases) automatically involved and associated. It affects me. I may not ever make anymore post concerning it. I also am not looking for people to agree with what I am about to say. it may be uncomfortable to read. but also keep in mind it is equally uncomfortable to type as well as to experience. So i'll try to be as clear as possible.

Truths.
Black people (Not including all races of "non-white" decent ie Native Americans, Latino, Asian***I am excluding them not because they haven't been unjustly treated. but, only because I can better explain through my line of heritage) came to North America under uncomfortable treatment (i will not speak to slavery as being Wrong or Right. I don't have the patience nor desire to argue any opposing thoughts that would follow). While in America blacks were looked at (By MOST of America) as unequal and/or not Human. As time went on, people with power shared the same belief about the inferiority of Black people. In fact they felt so strongly about it, that they made Laws (not just practices or habits) about maintaining the mis-treatment of Blacks. When a Law is in Place...it is the Police officers duty to ENFORCE the law whether the law be "moral" or not). When you have a system in place that is built to maintain mistreatment, it is hard to speak against it. Because you are not only speaking against the law, but you are questioning the integrity of the nation that the law is built for. You will get resistance. not only from the law makers but from the citizens which live in the society that believes their nation to be moral and just.

Years pass, people realize that Blacks (as well as all men) are created equal. And that it is wrong to treat Blacks different from White people (not to be disparaging). Black people and some concerned White people pressure the law makers to change laws that was put in place to KEEP Black people from having the same liberties as White People. Now keep in mind that those unjust laws were NOT changed because ALL the law makers realized they were unjust...they were changed to give the appearance that the law making people (that represented the nation) were morally abiding. As laws changed...practices were being carried out to be sure that Blacks were still being treated Unfair. Just because a law was changed, it does not meant that the collective mindset has changed with it. There are still people in power that have the belief that Blacks are inferior.

Now whether you accept it or not...MOST of us do not have the opportunity to interact with people and cultures that are not relative to our own. We spend more time Receiving information about other races and cultures than we do experiencing them. This is not the best way to gain an understanding about a culture or race. The Majority of images and ideas involving Black people are images and ideas that are not favorable for dispelling beliefs of inferiority.

(side track) I grew up in a HOUSE with two parents in White Plains, NY. Mother was a law enforcement officer and father was in corporate sales at a company in Connecticut. My mother was also a Christian Minister. So I was raised in a Law abiding home. We had White people as neighbors. I did not rob people or steal cars. I went to school (didn't want to go) and played with white and Black children). I Don't have a criminal record. I don't eat fried Chicken every week. yet, my favorite television show was not "Friends" and I wasn't a fan of "The Beatles". I interest are diverse. My family DID graduate from Harvard, Julliard and also hold administrative positions at those very schools. I decided to go to a community college. Graduated with honors and start my own business. I do not walk with saggy pants, i also don't wear oxfords. I Speak in complete sentences and I still say "Yo". ***I still get slighted service when I go into a jewelry store to buy things for my GF. I also get eye balled by police officers. I even was held at gun point by a police officer because he mistook me to be a robber, when i was the uniformed manager of a restaurant that made the call to police that we were being robbed by two white males.*** Because of my good parents, I grew up with the mindset to not be bitter at those unfair circumstances and to not group all people with the "bad apples." I was fortunate to carry out that mindset (off topic).

There is a reality that people and Law enforcement are being exposed to toxic information which gives them a perspective that Black people are a nuisance. It can even spark an idea that Black lives are not important. The Black Lives Matter movement was not started because Black people wanted to have an movement to exercise being loud and rude. But it was only a response to multiple acts of Police Officers exercising fatal results in non violent offences---where officers decided to kill the person rather than use a little bit of effort to resolve an incident in a non fatal way. That is why the Black Lives Matter movement started. So yes. I do feel a little bit sour when someone says they don't respect the movement.

***Now, I do not wear Black Lives Matter clothes or wave a Black Lives Matter flag. I do not go on Black Lives Matter marches, because I take part in a different movement which has the same desired goal:
I believe...
In the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it.
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty.
In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice.
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.
In the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.
In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.
In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures.
In the separation of religion and government and the freedoms of speech, association and expression.

So, yes there are MANY people involved with the Black Lives Matter movement that make very counter productive decisions . There are also MANY people involved in the Black Lives Matter movement that operate in a negative (even divisive) spirit. I cringe whenever I see the Black Lives Matter movement executed in a unfavorable way, Just as there are Many Jedi that are members of the TOTJO and other Jedi groups that misrepresent what the core of Jediism is .

Goken wrote: I think that they should have gone to the event organizers while the event was being organized with those demands first and only made this protest IF those demands had not been met by the event,

Maybe that's exactly what happened :dry:
We'll never know.

Codama wrote: MadHatter, I understand your frustration...but, I am unsettled at your conclusion.


So, yes there are MANY people involved with the Black Lives Matter movement that make very counter productive decisions . There are also MANY people involved in the Black Lives Matter movement that operate in a negative (even divisive) spirit. I cringe whenever I see the Black Lives Matter movement executed in a unfavorable way, Just as there are Many Jedi that are members of the TOTJO and other Jedi groups that misrepresent what the core of Jediism is .

I hold to qualms with the goals of the movement but take serious issue with the tactics I see used time and again. You spoke of your life growing up and you grew up not far from me. I grew up in Bridgeport Connecticut. Middle of the ghetto. I lived some of the things the BLM speaks out against. I have been stopped and even been hemmed up into a fence for walking after dark and looking too pale for the neighborhood. I have seen corrupt cops and spoken out against it. My issues come when people feel its ok to bully other people. I am a gay man that has experienced discrimination and ill treatment for it. So when I see my fellows in the LGBT community being bullied and their events taken over or stopped by people demanding that we do as they want I get more then a little annoyed. No one has the right to do that. Any group may have bad apples but when a groups tactics are bullying other marginalized people there are issues with the methodology. I mean if we want to speak to experience the African American community has by law had equal opportunity in the armed forces since roughly 1950. While I was in I lived under dont ask dont tell and served with the threat of being booted out if anyone outed me. But the BLM doesnt think about that when they take these actions so yes I agree with the goals but the actions have me more then a little hot under the collar.

I'm veering from topic, but Codama brings up an excellent point.

Within any group, we all speak for the group whether we like it or not. Even when we say, "That guy doesn't speak for us," it's because that's precisely what he's doing and we really wish he would stop.

And the least responsible voices within a group often get the most attention. Bad examples are, after all, very compelling.

Back on track:

Snowy points out, quite rightly, that we don't really know what happened before the protest. It may be that many attempts at communication took place. We cannot know either way conclusively, and an assumption in either direction wouldn't be useful.

I can identify, as best as I am able, with both parties involved. I know that it is irresponsible for me to judge whether or not a person who identifies as oppressed truly is. I cannot tell a person who has been hurt taht they have not. I have had people try to rewrite my experiences and it was wrong when they did it. It's wrong when I do it.

And it seems like the outcome of the thing was amicable enough. I get why one might find the exclusion of police problematic. Still, I must assume they are free to attend. Just not in their capacity as police. And there may come a time when that does not feel necessary to the parties involved, but now is not that time.

One hopes that, with this conflict handled well, conversations can be easier in the future.