You Get what you Give

You may know the song by the New Radicals, so what are your general opinions, as Jedi, on the phrase you Get what you Give, an Eye for an Eye, and justice. Do you believe in revenge and payback ? Thanks

Love that song! :laugh:

Erm, I believe in Karma ie. you get what you give/what goes around comes around, and I believe in justice.

I don't agree with revenge/payback, though I'd be lying if I said I had never engaged in it (and even enjoyed it a little) :blush:

I certainly don't believe in some universal moral credit and debit system that pays you for good deeds and charges you for bad deeds. That isn't what Karma is either - as I understand it.

I do believe that you get out what you put in - but that is quite a different concept. With the right mindset, any activity can be autotelic: it can be meaningful and rewarding in of itself. In general the more committed you are, the more autotelic it can be.

Justice is a much more slippery subject - it is completely relative. To the extent that all illegal (or sinful) activities are judgments arising out of the cultural and societal context, there can be no absolutes. The sinful activities that most cultures agree on, as being sinful, are those that stem from anger, and therefore, fear. "You will not be punished for your anger, but by your anger" is a quote that encapsulates this. Anger will inevitably lead to 'punishment' without the need to appeal to a human instigated, or naturally universal, system of justice. Many believe the system of justice based on custodial terms should not be viewed as punishment, rather, a means by which society can be protected from those that are a danger to it, and an opportunity to successfully rehabilitate offenders into society. For the most part, the current justice system convincingly fails in the latter.

As for revenge and payback - such actions are literally self-defeating and should have no place in the Jedi arsenal. Again revenge and payback are driven by anger: "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison, and expecting the other person to die".

Both those quotes are often attributed to Gautama Buddha but there is scant evidence for that, although they may well encapsulate concepts that he would have whole-heartedly agreed with!

Getting what you give is a lost opportunity for the benefits of an alternative. People need to be punished for wrongdoing, but harming someone who is already broken may just break them further. Better to fix the source than fight the symptom.

Revenge is about your feelings and by all means feel those feelings, but don't let them control you. Justice isn't about you, it's about what the other person has done and what needs to be done to address their wrongdoing. Why let the fire of another's harm spread through you when you could put the fire out?

Silas Mercury wrote: You may know the song by the New Radicals, so what are your general opinions, as Jedi, on the phrase you Get what you Give, an Eye for an Eye, and justice. Do you believe in revenge and payback ? Thanks

Thanks for raising the topic - it's something I've been thinking about off and on. I personally believe in causality - that your actions (and non-action is also an "action") will have consequences. Some of them can be estimated, others can be completely unforeseen. Some are immediate, some set off a hidden chain-reaction and will show their full extent much later. This is my core concept. There are many things that "work" within this system of causality:

- the perception of action and reaction is individual. The world is the way you perceive it. Every person perceives the world differently. This is a "good" and a "bad" thing ("good" and "bad" are also within the realm of personal perception and, as such, terms that are difficult to apply). The "good" thing is that I can actively work on my perception through a variety of self-development methods. Conditioning myself to have a generally positive perception is hard, but very rewarding, as it allows me to find peace. The "bad" thing is that everyone perceives the world individually, so something that is positive to you may be perceived as very negative by someone else.

- in addition to personal perception, there's how others perceive you. This can only be estimated, as you don't know what's going on in the minds of others. But from my every-day experience, I'd say that if you behave in a positive way, others tend to react to you positively as well (not always, though - sometimes things just hit you in the face anyway

I also believe in the Buddhist idea that "right thought" and "right action" don't necessarily go together - yet both of them are necessary to ultimately achieve inner peace. "Right action" means you're essentially pretending to act in accordance to whatever moral / ethical etc. standard you and the world around you believes in. "Right action" is the sort of action that is thought to do the least amount of harm and prompt the most positive / benefical reaction within the system of causality. However, this is only prentending and won't have the effect of finding deep inner peace as long as you don't achieve "right thought" as well - with "right thought" being the deep, inner conviction, the essential nature of actually being good and not only appearing to do good. "Right thought" can be cultivated, again, through a variety of self-development tactics. Some people are born with it, others (like me) will work their entire life to achieve it.

So in an ideal world, nobody would seek revenge or payback - because these actions are more likely to prompt a negative re-action and threaten inner peace. In reality, a lot of this happens on an instinctive level. Everyone gets angry, hurt, helpless at times and most of us then do stuff that we later regret. But I believe it's worth it to actively work on one's own way of thinking and perception of the world in order to find peace and harmony in life.

I believe in that statement more as an ideal of putting good things into the world with the hope of getting good things out of it. Sure, the opposite could also be true, putting bad out into the world should bring bad back to me, but I'd rather not focus on that. I'd rather not focus on bad things coming back around to bad people, especially not focusing on being the one to bring that bad back to them. That only breeds more negativity, which is something I've seen more than enough of.

You give good, you get good. That's what I choose to focus on out of that phrase.

Payback lol well I have never profited from revenge or Payback. Ever. I HAVE been blessed when I serve others. I SEE More when I speak less. "I do have a horrid tongue ." some days it seems the Less of me I can find the more of everything else around me I notice. That's just me though...smiley face!

ah yes equivalent exchange I am trying to practice and learn it well...

FTPC wrote: ah yes equivalent exchange I am trying to practice and learn it well...

I am a firm believer friend and can only say... some days I've been given more than I tend to notice... so I give a bit more and it's ALLWAYs come back more than what I needed. I'm not talking playing nice with strangers, that's something way different, I'm talking giving grace and forgiveness and time and effort where it's needed not to the wind but to my very own... then at that point I couldn't out give some days what was coming back. True Story.

Goken wrote: You give good, you get good.

What happens when what you receive never comes close to what you've given? What if in spite of all you give you only ever receive bad?