Is offending a group of people always bad?

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7 years 11 months ago #241769 by TheDude
Warning: graphic images.

Facebook and other social media sites have been removing posts about this due to "cultural insensitivity". Essentially, there is a Chinese festival where living dogs are being skinned and boiled for food. I've got nothing against China or eating dog meat, but this seems unnecessarily cruel.
Destroying cruel cultural practices like these paves the way for a more just and good society in my opinion. Yet there are those who think that it is immoral to stand against any cultural practice, on the grounds that it is their culture. Popular social media platforms now have shown that it is more socially acceptable to be absolutely cruel to innocent animals than to possibly offend a group of people.
This raises some questions. What are our priorities as a species and as a society? What cultural practices are worth preserving and which ones deserve to be destroyed? Is offending a group of people always a bad thing?

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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #241771 by Leah Starspectre
Personally, I think that first of all, we have to avoid knee-jerk reactions to cultural practices that are different from our own. Like people freaking out about eating dog meat. Just because it's not done in our culture, doesn't mean it doesn't have merit in another.

That being said, I draw the line at practices that are harmful to others (to be exact, harmful to a living creature). To continue with your example: eating dog meat is not harmful any more than eating chicken or pork is. But the East Asian practice of torturing dogs prior to slaughter for human consumption is cruel and unnecessary. But they believe that torture makes the meat more tender....

My belief is that cultural practices should be preserved if at all possible, but cruelty to others (be they human or animal) shouldn't be encouraged. Some feelings may be rattled by questioning tradition, but we must learn and grow as a species.
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Leah Starspectre.
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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #241773 by Edan
Sorry thedude, but I really really wish I hadn't clicked on this thread.

Cultural practices change with popular opinion, it's not so much about banning practices but simply making them unacceptable in culture. We know that what is going on in the picture I am certainly not going to look at is cruel... So why should we give a mouth piece to that? Meh, I expect people to disagree but I am very anti animal cruelty.

It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by Edan.
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7 years 11 months ago #241779 by

TheDude wrote: What cultural practices ... deserve to be destroyed?


Reading The Sun or their website.

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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #241782 by OB1Shinobi
http://www.conspicuousconsumption.org/


http://www.verdant.net/


http://www.unfpa.org/child-marriage


http://www.child-soldiers.org/


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/


https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~hboiled/issues/51/51-01-sextrafficking.html


http://www.africanholocaust.net/articles/21stcentury%20slaves.html


http://www.state.gov/j/tip/what/


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0602_030602_untouchables.html


http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/04/jewish-critics-of-zionism-and-of-israels-treatment-of-the-palestinians/


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2015/05/06/institutional-racism-is-our-way-of-life


http://www.fsdinternational.org/country/india/weissues


http://www.aina.org/news/20120124172459.htm


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/iraqs-oppressed-majority-95250996/?no-ist


http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/genocide/genocide-in-sudan.htm


http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-bosnian-war-and-srebrenica-genocide/


http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141672992/native-foster-care-lost-children-shattered-families


http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/11/18/3593300/violence-native-american-kids/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples


http://www.onlineuniversities.com/blog/2011/05/25-countries-where-women-dont-go-to-college/


im tired

anyway, its a legitimate question to ask "who has the right to set the standards that everyone else should follow?"

its fair to say "we dont have the right to force people to live by our values"

but theres some heinous stuff going on all over the place too

these are "just" the ones that have gotten enough attention for me to recall them pretty much off the top of my head

People are complicated.
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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7 years 11 months ago #241783 by OB1Shinobi
http://www.domesticviolenceservices.com/female-infanticide.html

People are complicated.

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7 years 11 months ago #241790 by Gisteron
Yet another "moral crisis" thing I never quite understand people on. Why does it have to be either "we must do our utmost to destroy this evil practice" or "we must not question or criticize it lest we offend someone"?
Why can there never be any nuance, never any balance and why do we let those extreme camps dictate to us on which side we are?

Here's my stance:
I have no respect for any defence of any position or tradition that begins or ends with "it is our culture". I am completely unimpressed by deeply held personal beliefs as I am by patriotism or language preservationism or cultural conservatism of any kind. Frankly, I'd have more respect for someone doing things like this if they told me they take pleasure from the animals' screams of agony eventhough I don't think I'd have much left to discuss concerning this topic with a person like that.
However, "these people are evil and must be stopped" is an equally primitive position rooted in the same unreason. I am not saying that each and every Chinese dog butcher can be reasoned with, and I am sure that some are more heartless than others but if we are willing to interfere or dictate laws and customs of other countries we must acknowledge and accept them doing likewise to ours and I'm rather positive The Sun would beg to differ with that.


Speaking of The Sun, being a highly reactionary as well as for most of its history a far right tabloid magazine that was on numerous occasions not at all above outright lying, I dare question just how accurate this report is. For an article that does so much to appeal to emotion that the bulk of it are still images, none of them show even the comparatively benign-sounding "spinning de-hairing machine", let alone any animals being boiled alive or skinned alive (what's the point of de-hairing the dog if you were going to skin it anyway?) or slaughtered by bloodletting through the throat. Now, I am not saying it is the responsibility of a newspaper to be as objective as they can, I am just not much impressed by so transparent attempts at manipulating a public by their emotions at the cost of journalistic integrity...

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #241800 by OB1Shinobi
i know this is the wrong set of starts

might even seem blasphemous

but.. we're not the first ones to bring up the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mH-L6UCCAE

People are complicated.
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by OB1Shinobi.
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7 years 11 months ago #241803 by Leah Starspectre

OB1Shinobi wrote: anyway, its a legitimate question to ask "who has the right to set the standards that everyone else should follow?"

its fair to say "we dont have the right to force people to live by our values"


But we CAN look at the myths from across the globe to distill values that are common across humanity. If we assume that Joseph Campbell is correct in his research (and seeing as it's part of our IP, lets assume that, shall we?), there are themes and values that recur across time and geopolitical borders.

I think that's the key: to find which values are inherent in humanity, and use them as a guide. They're not "our" values if the're shared by all.

Now, I don't think we ought to go around, blindly swinging a sword of moral justice...but I think we could stand to encourage people to think outside the box of their culture and recognize when a particular practice is contrary to human values.
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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #241810 by

But we CAN look at the myths from across the globe to distill values that are common across humanity. If we assume that Joseph Campbell is correct in his research (and seeing as it's part of our IP, lets assume that, shall we?), there are themes and values that recur across time and geopolitical borders.

I think that's the key: to find which values are inherent in humanity, and use them as a guide. They're not "our" values if the're shared by all.


Those values that transcend time, and borders are not the ones that are offending people, and those are the ones that are being followed.

Of course your not going to be bothered by that which you have in common, or support.

However, the world is a diverse place, with people who live, while on the same planet, not near to the same reality.

Lots of dictators wanted values that would not be "ours" as they would be shared by all.

People have fought for there freedoms across time, because no one agrees on everything and while you will say there are values inherent in humanity, per Joseph Campell, humanity, proves him wrong daily.

You cannot distill something without removing a lot, and how then will you remove that and not start a conflict?

One thing that humans also have in common, is they dont like being told what to do in and will fight to keep those practices you deem against humanity.

I dont live in China.

My reach and influence doesnt extend to China.

I do not think people are meant to deal with the influx of the problems, real or imagined, of 7 billion people.

Ive stepped out of my "cultural box" by accepting the fact that China likes to eat mans best friend.

Its contrary to my values, but I dont even live on the same continent. Eating a dog is well, to me, not that big a deal.

I dont need to see the process, but im not upset about it either.

I think people are irresponsible with social media more than anything.
Last edit: 7 years 11 months ago by .

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