Duty sword advice

Hello all,

I am in need of a less-lethal impact weapon for my job. Everybody talks about telescopic batons, but it is very easy to harm an unintended target when deploying one in an actual situation, when you don't have the time to ask everybody to get out of the way as to not get hit accidentally. Plus they are just shoddily built weapons unless you pay more than one is worth.

For the past few years, the LAPD has used synthetic bokken as a baton. I think this is a better idea because of the increased reach and that I can use it two-handed, and defensively (to block strikes from weapons).

Any martial artists here to recommend a solid bokken? Price is not an issue for me if it is worth it.

If working security in large crowds, I can see how collapsible batons could be troublesome. If you want to stick with the clubbing weapon, I'd recommend a classic solid 24" baton to wear on your hip with training in Escrima emphasis on grappling and entrapments. This allows to maintain close quarters without bystander injuries.

Well to give advice one must know what you require. What are the rules of your work place? What training do you have with less lethal items? What are the requirements of your body type and environment? We could list items all day but for it to be effective we must know more about your needs/training/ and situations in which you may need it.

I would suggest training with sticks of various sizes.
6', 4', 2', 1', are generally the sizes you should know how to use.
Once you're good with sticks, you can feel free to pick a weapon based on your preferred stick size. I personally prefer the 5' staff, though that's uncommon.

EDIT:
Stick fighting can be extremely lethal as well, so whatever you're planning on doing, be careful. A clear hit to the wrong place at the wrong time can kill someone. I would suggest sticking with a baton. Stun batons are also interesting, but be aware of pacemakers.

MadHatter wrote: Well to give advice one must know what you require. What are the rules of your work place? What training do you have with less lethal items? What are the requirements of your body type and environment? We could list items all day but for it to be effective we must know more about your needs/training/ and situations in which you may need it.

I guess I can talk about my work, as long as I'm not specific.

I'm part of a rapid response team at a large indoor shopping center, one of the biggest in America. The post-9/11 terrorist paranoia, as well as the very real threat of mass shootings and escalating crime brought our arrangement into existence. I assure you, every large mall has a small specialist force. Our mall only has three, in addition to a (for the size of the mall) small group of armed security with only handguns and pepper spray.

We get to choose and customize our duty setup, within broad limits, so I want to use a bokken for the sort of situations where pepper spray has ceased to be effective, but guns would be overkill (pun intended). These sort of incidents happen regularly, with almost every big Air Jordan release, and I am getting sick of it.

As for my weapons skills, I have a competent, intermediate, working knowledge of escrima. I also am highly advanced in ninjutsu, but I don't think it falls under the traditional category of martial arts.

Thank you all for your responses. I hope somebody can recommend a durable bokken.

TheDude wrote: I would suggest training with sticks of various sizes.
6', 4', 2', 1', are generally the sizes you should know how to use.
Once you're good with sticks, you can feel free to pick a weapon based on your preferred stick size. I personally prefer the 5' staff, though that's uncommon.

EDIT:
Stick fighting can be extremely lethal as well, so whatever you're planning on doing, be careful. A clear hit to the wrong place at the wrong time can kill someone. I would suggest sticking with a baton. Stun batons are also interesting, but be aware of pacemakers.

A staff would be impractical. As for shorter escrima sticks, they could be an option. I doubt a rattan stick or a bokken would be any more potentially lethal than one of those telescopic police/flea market batons. I am very ambivalent about them.

As for electroshock weapons- you have only two choices. Overpriced stuff that works, or flea market Chinese crap that breaks not long after you buy it. I do have a Taser on my belt, but ONLY so that, when I have to use my 10mm, I can say that the situation called for it, rather than being guilty of neglect by not having other potential options.

There are a few reasons why I wouldn't suggest using a bokken. First, because the applied force will be more damaging with a larger weapon (I know from experience) if you have to use it, which makes it far more likely that you would seriously injure someone with a bokken rather than a baton. In addition, I believe that the shorter baton is better for defense, as the shorter length inevitably gives you more wrist-based control over the weapon. This will allow you to parry and respond with greater efficacy than with a bokken. A smaller point, but an important one, is that it's simply easier to carry a baton than a bokken.

But if you are strictly interested in the bokken, there are a few pointers I can give you. You'll be looking for something in bamboo, since it's a reasonably hard wood while still being flexible, allowing you to have less of a shock upon contact. I'd also suggest using a stick of about 3.5 feet. While not strictly a bokken, the shinai used in Kendo is a good applicant. This is a fairly well reviewed shinai.

Usually I wouldn't advocate anyone going out and buying weapons, but if you're going to get a wooden sword, make sure it's a good, flexible wood like bamboo.

TheDude wrote: There are a few reasons why I wouldn't suggest using a bokken. First, because the applied force will be more damaging with a larger weapon (I know from experience) if you have to use it, which makes it far more likely that you would seriously injure someone with a bokken rather than a baton. In addition, I believe that the shorter baton is better for defense, as the shorter length inevitably gives you more wrist-based control over the weapon. This will allow you to parry and respond with greater efficacy than with a bokken. A smaller point, but an important one, is that it's simply easier to carry a baton than a bokken.

But if you are strictly interested in the bokken, there are a few pointers I can give you. You'll be looking for something in bamboo, since it's a reasonably hard wood while still being flexible, allowing you to have less of a shock upon contact. I'd also suggest using a stick of about 3.5 feet. While not strictly a bokken, the shinai used in Kendo is a good applicant. This is a fairly well reviewed shinai.

Usually I wouldn't advocate anyone going out and buying weapons, but if you're going to get a wooden sword, make sure it's a good, flexible wood like bamboo.

I should have mentioned that the bokken is mainly used by the LAPD mounted police, not as part of a normal officer's duty setup. I myself wouldn't carry it all the time, only when needed. Me and the other two guys on the rapid response squad don't just walk around in the open. When we do, we are in plainclothes. We use maintenance hallways to get around, and we can therefore appear out of nowhere when a situation happens.

Maybe you don't like weapons, but this is my job. I am also a bit biased, because as a practitioner of escrima and ninjutsu, I use my martial arts knowledge as a tool, not as part of a competitive sport.

I would just use my tactical pen (which is just something I own and use as a pen, not part of my duty setup), but range is an issue. If I get in close and get bit by some Footlocker customer, I could get HIV or something. I have used it, though, on a deranged man in the bathroom who urinated on me when I was trying to eject him from the mall.

Well, from my experience with both bokken and shinai, the shinai is a much better weapon. It's easier to handle and hurts just as bad when you get hit with it. The more flexible nature of the shinai means that less stress is put on your joints, which means you'll be able to use it longer and hit harder with it. You whack someone with a bokken, the bokken can easily break or you can lose grip, but more importantly it's much harder to deliver the same amount of damage and recoil for a second attack. You whack someone with a shinai, you can pull back immediately and whack again with little to no problems. In addition, they're about the same length, and the shinai generally has a better grip, meaning that you'll have more control and be able to do more with it.

I would at least suggest trying both of them.

could always go with a pr24 baton, the one with a side handle like police used to carry (like tonfa)...the side handle allows you to spin the baton in close quarters generating more impact force when needed and offers a leverage point for arm traps, and choke holds....plus with its size you can apply escrima/arnis techniques as well....