Are Good and Evil Relative? Can Violence be Justified?

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10 Jul 2015 13:25 #197413 by
Alan Watts says something about Good and Evil in his book Chapter Two; The Game of Black and White. Both are two sides of the same coin. We would not know one with out the other.
As for violence as long as you are using it as a last resort I believe it is okay. You were acting in self defense of your dog so a believe your attack was justified.

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10 Jul 2015 14:29 #197420 by

Boesen wrote: Alan Watts says something about Good and Evil in his book Chapter Two; The Game of Black and White. Both are two sides of the same coin. We would not know one with out the other.
As for violence as long as you are using it as a last resort I believe it is okay. You were acting in self defense of your dog so a believe your attack was justified.


Author: Scott Peck: what is evil? live spelled backwards.


Can violence be justified? I dunno, when the tree leaves are droopy from so many cloudy days, is the sun evil?

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10 Jul 2015 14:32 #197421 by Gisteron
In my opinion the question is superfluous to the particular example, though surely it has its place elsewhere. See, you clarified your own and the neighbor's dog's position. What they need (security of territory/safety of pet) and what is in the way (an invader/an aggressor) of that. So both you and it reacted in what you immediately judged to be the most effective action at that time and we can go on discussing justification for either side for another three pages.

Now, why do you need to call anything in the given example good or evil? It serves not to make the situation at all clearer. At best, these labels draw an even sharper divide and serve to overly demonize one party while overly glorify the other. If anything, labels like good and evil would serve to justify even more violence than can possibly be required to resolve the situation.

As to the main questions you pose, I'd say the labels are not so much relative as they are subjective, as necessarily all labels are. A single isolated thing can at the same time be neither good nor evil but it cannot be both good and evil. In other words, there is only one side of the middle ground there, something we'd call a discontinuity. Now, can violence be justified? Probably. Depends on what we mean by violence, can and justify respectively. Saying it's either good or evil though doesn't do much to either justify or condemn it. It just makes the approach sound... simplistic, if we want to avoid calling it childish.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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10 Jul 2015 14:54 - 10 Jul 2015 14:55 #197423 by
Am noticing that in discussions (not just this one) of good and evil joined with actions (self or others) . . .

there appears this association of feeling badly made equal to a conception of evil

am seeing two sets: 1) feelings 2) actions
how could the possibility of equality occur?
Last edit: 10 Jul 2015 14:55 by .

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10 Jul 2015 18:36 - 10 Jul 2015 18:36 #197442 by Lykeios Little Raven

Boesen wrote: Alan Watts says something about Good and Evil in his book Chapter Two; The Game of Black and White. Both are two sides of the same coin. We would not know one with out the other.
As for violence as long as you are using it as a last resort I believe it is okay. You were acting in self defense of your dog so a believe your attack was justified.


The idea that one cannot exist without another is, in my opinion, a bit silly. (No, I'm not saying you are silly for agreeing or quoting it) I love Alan Watts and hesitate to diminish his belief. Still, this idea is like saying light and dark require one another to exist. Of course they exist. Light is light. Darkness is darkness. If there was only light in the universe it would still be observable. We might not call it "light," but it would still exist.

“Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.” -Zhuangzi

“Though, as the crusade presses on, I find myself altogether incapable of staying here in saftey while others shed their blood for such a noble and just cause. For surely must the Almighty be with us even in the sundering of our nation. Our fight is for freedom, for liberty, and for all the principles upon which that aforementioned nation was built.” - Patrick “Madman of Galway” O'Dell
Last edit: 10 Jul 2015 18:36 by Lykeios Little Raven.

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05 Aug 2015 21:27 #199314 by

Mareeka wrote:

Boesen wrote: Can violence be justified? I dunno, when the tree leaves are droopy from so many cloudy days, is the sun evil?


Well, if you ask the tree after that many cloudy days, I think the tree would find the clouds to be evil!

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06 Aug 2015 01:50 - 06 Aug 2015 02:02 #199327 by OB1Shinobi
putting people into ovens is evil
clouds are just water in the sky

I do not believe many of the people here feel that putting people into ovens because of their race or culture is on a par with clouds drifting overhead

People are complicated.
Last edit: 06 Aug 2015 02:02 by OB1Shinobi.

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06 Aug 2015 06:57 #199350 by Gisteron
Trees feel no pain. They have no opinion either. That's why we aren't concerned with their feelings but only care for their survival as far as it is useful to us or by extension the entirety of the biosphere.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

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