"If you're not doing anything wrong..."

Venator Mortis wrote: If you arent breaking the law you have nothing to worry about. Simple:)

Actually, it's very far from simple.

It is predicated on the notion that you're always conscious of breaking the law. You aren't. You have no idea the full, complete corpus of law in your jurisdiction. Even most attorneys and judges don't. Hell, most legislators don't, and they write the laws. There are so many times in your life you will do something against the law and never realize it are astounding.

It also implies that laws are logical. Did you know it's still illegal to mispronounce "Arkansas" within the state borders? Or that if you come visit me in my home state, it's against the law to transport an ice cream cone in your back pocket ? Or that in a Washington town you're breaking the law by riding an ugly horse ? Ever been in a knife fight? Do you know how many states will now bar you from holding a legal office because that could constitute a "duel with a deadly weapon"?

Finally, this is the "gateway drug" to the removal of freedoms. This is the phrase that oppressive governments and police forces use to chip slowly away at your rights with new, invasive procedures that deny you any modicum of privacy or dignity. After all, resistance in the pursuit of your rights implies you have done something wrong, doesn't it?

in florida it's illegal to molest alligators...in las vegas it's illegal to have sex with a chicken in your front yard before 10 am within city limits....the country is full of wacky, unknown laws.....

its far more serious than just outdated silliness

americas per capita prison rate second highest in the world

the land of the free puts more of its citizens in prison than china russia iraq saudi arabia venuzuela cuba

on and on

homeland security has now given a functionally anonymous government the legal right to search our homes without warrants and to arrest american citizens without filing charges and hold them indefinitely just the same as it was allowedto do to foriegn "terrorists"

if you look honestly at the death penalty issue for example you find an extremely disturbing trend of PATENTLY INNOCENT people being railroaded by the system even in the face of clearly relevant forensic evidence which could prove their innocence

if police are good people or not is a misunderstanding of the issue

the simplist explanation for why that is a misunderstanding of the issue is that "good people"

do their jobs

and at least in america we seem to be convinced that the job of the police is to arrest people

we like to believe that we can correct the above line by saying

"no their job is to arrest CRIMINALS" but thats not true

by our own laws a person is not a criminal until they have been convicted of a crime

which happens long after the arrest

the assumotion of innocence before the law IS THE LAW

but with the absurdity of some of our criminal laws, the frighteningly vague lack of accountability and expansive scope of power allowed by many of our laws, and the clearly disproportionate state of citizen incarceration

the role of police, at least here in america, is becoming more and more ominous all the time

and this is not even getting into the topic of illegal "drugs"
and why our laws in this area are so contrary to both freedom and justice

With regards to surveillance... (If you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide...)

Everyone reading this, think of the most embarrasing, personally damning and private thing you could possibly think about (off the top of my head such taboo topics as masturbation, sexual fantasy, how you feel about your boss and coworkers).

Now tell everyone in the Temple about it.

Guess what... I do not expect you to tell everyone in the Temple about it. Do you know why?

Because it's none of our business to know or demand, just as it is none of the government's business to know or demand.

And the fact that I don't want to tell people absolutely everything about my life makes me neither a criminal nor a terrorist. I'm a private person and I expect that privacy to be respected as I shall respect your's.

Like a million other discussions we've had here in the Temple, this issue can also come back to semantics.

"If you're not doing anything wrong..."

What is wrong? Who is deciding it? Who is enforcing this definition of wrong?

It fascinates me that we often identify with heroes who in the context of their situation are actually criminals. Robin Hood, William Wallace, Martin Luther King Jr, even the beloved Luke Skywalker. We celebrate these heroes because we believe that they are in the right and standing up to an authority wronging them. The Sheriff, the King, the Governor of Alabama and Darth Vader would disagree.

Senan wrote: It fascinates me that we often identify with heroes who in the context of their situation are actually criminals. Robin Hood, William Wallace, Martin Luther King Jr, even the beloved Luke Skywalker...

Gandhi. Jesus. The entire crew of the Serenity...

I have long been heard saying things like "If you don't want trouble with the law, don't break it." Usually that's my stance because I'm talking to people who are complaining because they got busted while breaking the law. I have very little tolerance for lack of personal responsibility. It just bugs me.

However, I fully understand that innocent people get arrested or harrased by the police every day. Not breaking the law is a good step towards avoiding trouble with the cops, but you might run into trouble anyway for no apparent reason. It does happen.

All I can say is be respectful of them and you should come out okay. Most cops I know are just trying to do their job and will respond to respect. Some might even recipricate it.

There are good, honest and noble police officers.

And then there's this which happened recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2wmqn-laTM

Doing nothing wrong in some instances is a crime in itself it seems...

An interesting topic, by all accounts, one which does inspire strong views.

I have been on the "other side", as it were, and I have to ask you all the same question I was forced to ask myself; Would you die, or possibly be forced to kill to save a loved one? There was no mediation, no time to run for help, and I was only a 16 year old boy who was outmatched in every way but one; I carried a walking stick that I had not only spent years walking on, but years working on his fighting skill with. I was lost in a rage so profound I blacked out, and witness statement of a very reliable nature steps in here, I warned him to step back from my friend who was dying under his hands before my eyes, and when he did so his rage and malice was then directed at me. I admit I prefer it this way, as long as I am his intent, my friend is not. It was my next actions that even I question, with my friend's and my own life hanging in the balance I reacted from my training and struck at the oncoming man in the head. This nearly killed him. For three months or more his life hung in the balance, his family tortured all that time. His niece once my closest female friend, hates me completely to this day and I still despair over it to this day. Was it right to do this? I done my time for it, and the man lives to this day, though he is no longer of sound mind or body because of it. We make our choices and must live with the consequences, must learn from it, take what wisdom can be taught and become a better pesron from our past to be better in the future.

That is truly my past, and from it I believe I have learnt some valid yet harsh lessons.

The actions we take dictate our future, yet we must be aware and take into account that our actions will impact upon and sometimes even dictate others paths, many more than anyone is capable of seeing. Our actions create ripples in the Force that can be felt for generations.

I believe that a law should only be broken for the good of others, and if punishment should come from this we must accept it willingly and use our time to reflect upon our own connection to the Force and how our actions could have been more in tune with the Force to truly better ourselves and our world.

May the Force be withh you.

I will take back my original statement. As it is, the law is not so "black and white". There is so much gray in it. Along with Corruption, lust for power, conflict of interests, etc.