Sharing a locker room with a transgender

Jamie Stick wrote:

RyuJin wrote: there simply isn't a way of accommodating everyone, without offending someone...

Perhaps we need to eradicate the idea that we should avoid offending everyone. I'm perfectly comfortable offending a few transphobic m'f'ers from time to time.

There's this thing, its called respect. Adder mentioned parents not wanting their daughters exposed to someone else's "Manjunk" :lol: and he has a very good point. Its not so much that they may think you or they are up to no good, its what they are used too, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I don't intend to sound uncaring, that's just how things are. A third choice is very reasonable, and eliminates confusion and unnecessary exposure that may traumatize the young, or whoever else for that matter...

unfortunately not everyone has,or understands respect...and beating it into them doesn't always work :lol:

but yeah having either a 3rd locker room or putting private changing stalls into all locker rooms would be a good solution

So it's separate but equal then? That's what it's come to? I think I've heard that before and I don't seem to remember it working out quite so well.

i don't believe in separate but equal...unfortunately because of christianity's heavy influence on society the genders are treated unequal...the concept of communal anything is relegated to the realm of taboo...unless you come from a family of nudists or exhibitionists, then your perspective of the human form, sex, and sexuality are more mature, but socially shunned...

if everyone in the world displayed a high level of respect discussions like this likely wouldn't occur...

Then because things are bad now they must always be bad? Why not strive for reform? Hell, why not overthrow the system?

change can't be forced, if it is it creates resentment, which can create greater problems...it must be developed over time.

look at the legalization of marijuana...it was condemned, and wrongfully classified to keep it illegal...but over time people have gradually come to accept the fact that their initial fears and reasoning were wrong, even still it's not legal everywhere but is on its way...

people in general are reluctant to change...it terrifies them, and what they fear they destroy...it takes time to alleviate fear, time and knowledge.

Jamie Stick wrote: Then because things are bad now they must always be bad? Why not strive for reform? Hell, why not overthrow the system?

Why, because a few people want access to the bathrooms, you expect the vast majority to be exuberant about it? You're taking it to the extreme, so long as the masses want things a certain way, things then will be slow to change. Lets remember, the majority of people alive do not spend a good deal of time cultivating themselves spiritually, mentally physically etc. They are for the most part, unawakened beings. That's not intended to insult. Most people, when there basic needs are met, don't challenge the system or question the nature of things. Things are slowly changing, probably not as fast as you may prefer. So what's the alternative? Protesting against people getting shocked and angry because they think your in the wrong bathroom? It all starts to sound absurd at one point, few people are not going to care if they look over and all of the sudden notice someone in the same dressing/rest room of the opposite gender. The human race for the most part, just isn't wired that way. This isn't the same as black students walking into a all white diner in the fifties, sitting down and ordering. Being angry is one thing, not finding fault when your manjunk accidentally falls out in front of minors and expecting people to get over it is something else entirely...

everybodys' aware of the "mob mentality" right - remember for those who saw the movie "men in black" theres a scene where someone says "a person is smart; people are dumb, panicky dangerous animals.."

well thats not UNTRUE but it isnt the whole truth either

it looks to me that given open discourse and opportunity for plain logical dialogue, the higher and most intelligent ideas eventually win
.this takes time
and it takes open discourse with equal access to the relevant information

and of coursein every discussion or debate there will always be the ones who wont or maybe cant accept what becomes obvious to most

also therese plenty of examples of information control and bias

these things happen

but, especially with the internet (seriously the internet is the single most impodtant tool for world peace that exists - this is the medium which will advance or species at an exponential rate IF WE KEEP CONTROL OF IT) and with the kind of discourse it offers we will see social progress happen faster than ever before

each one of us has the ability to influence someone else

all that is necessary for intelligent human growth is transparency and equal access to information

and time

the best thinkers always make the greatest difference in the end

even if they are denied and denied eventually SOMEONE listens and when that happens the ideas become a movement and the movement becomes an avalanche

and when the avalanche is based on well considered and articulately expressesd ideas which are universally recognizable as worthy

its only a matter of time

universal truths are universally evident
even if they have to be pointed out first
theyre like those weird optical confusion images that when you first look at them you see one thing but then once the real image is pointed out you can never UNsee it

thats what truth is like

RyuJin wrote: change can't be forced, if it is it creates resentment, which can create greater problems...it must be developed over time.

Except that this cannot wait since trans people are being killed. The genocide must end, a line must be drawn in the sand.

It is nothing like the legalization of marijuana because marijuana is a luxury; human dignity is right. Every transgender person deserves to use the toilet or locker room unassaulted, unquestioned, and unobstructed. These are not special privileges. These are fundamentals of which everyone else takes for granted. While some people see it fit to unleash their ignorance, their cruel jokes that minimize transgender people to freaks, and continually perpetuate the idea that body parts have a gender (they do not); they continue to live a life unaware of the daily realities for trans people.

But please, continue to make excuses for why transgender people should continue to be treated as second class citizens. Continue to explain away why it is okay to make jokes about transgender people while their blood cries out for justice on the streets North Carolina, New York, Louisiana, and more. Let's just all make their deaths a joke, let's all reduce this to an irrational fear of someone's genitals, shall we? The ignorance is astounding and despite my words, mine are not a chisel for the thicker skull.

i agree that everyones basic dignity should be respected but i also understand that if you have boy parts a lot of people are just not going to accept the fact that you consider yourself a girl
not when it relates to boy parts being naked in the same space as their little daugters.

no one cares how you feel when their naked kids are in the same room as a naked you
they care what your parts look like
and even though there are all kinds of stereo types and assumptions and ungrounded illogical phobias
when it comes to naked children they have as much (maybe more) right to their feelings as you do to yours

and theres a lot more of them