Armistice Day

Ecthalion wrote: There had been constant war between the different states in Europe from the fall of the Roman Empire until 1945 - approximately 1500 years. Since the formation of the EU allied these states together there has been a state of peace in Europe unknown before.

Regarding the UN - yes, there are still wars but I suspect that theses are much fewer in number than they would have been without it.

With all due respect, you are forgetting about the various armed conflicts in Bosnia/Herzegovina/Serbia/Croatia. The war in the early '90's was caused mainly by the fact that after WWII the UN tried to force multiple ethnic groups into one happy little container called Yugoslavia. After Yugoslavia broke apart into various religious and ethnic factions, NATO first ignored ethnic cleansing and then tried to fix the situation by bombing whoever was the most aggressive at the time.

Both conflicts in Iraq and the current ongoing conflict in Afghanistan also involve NATO led forces sanctioned by the UN.

And even excluding these conflicts as "outside of the EU", we can hardly compare 70 years of relative peace to 1,500 years of war considering there were 70 year periods of relative peace during that very same 1,500 year period.

And don't even get me started on the powder keg that is Ireland...

ren wrote: Nazi germany could accomplish quite a lot without the need for war. In fact I'll be bold and claim it was probably the most effective form of government ever.

Ren, what is the definition of "effective form" you're using to make such a bold statement?

I've sort of loss track of the current discussion. First it was Armistice Day, then it was results of war (technologies), then it was the war history of Europe, and not the failures of the UN, NATO, etc? Can we please get back on track to the ORIGINAL TOPIC?

Anyways, I found this on the internet, thought it would be cool to share it.

After WWI the US minted the Peace Dollar. They had to mint so many coins and decided to create something that would symbolize the peace that was hoped to come from the end of what was known then as “The Great World War.” WWI was thought to have been the war that would end all wars because it was so horrific and many thought that there would never be a war on that scale again.


I own one of these coins and take it out and look at it from time to time. To me it is a reminder of a simpler time when the majority of people still believed the world could become a better place. And I think of what the coin represents. The lost lives, the end of pointless conflicts and the horrors that were introduces for the first time during that war that the average foot soldier faced on a daily bases.

Arkayik wrote:

ren wrote: Nazi germany could accomplish quite a lot without the need for war. In fact I'll be bold and claim it was probably the most effective form of government ever.

Ren, what is the definition of "effective form" you're using to make such a bold statement?

The kind that turns a dump into a major power? This extreme form of nationalism has proven very effective after the devastation of WW1, the repayment, and then the 30's crisis. Something similar happened to the US after WW2.

Can we please get back on track to the ORIGINAL TOPIC?

You might want to read the original post again.

Senan wrote: With all due respect, you are forgetting about the various armed conflicts in Bosnia/Herzegovina/Serbia/Croatia.

But Yugoslavia was not a part of the EU which supports my point, and NATO is a defensive alliance (as were the alliances which caused the escalation of WWI). I am proposing more political alliances.

And even excluding these conflicts as "outside of the EU", we can hardly compare 70 years of relative peace to 1,500 years of war considering there were 70 year periods of relative peace during that very same 1,500 year period.

A check of a history book I have on war shows that between 582AD - 1945 there were 9 periods of peace in Europe (1680-1682, 1724-1726, 1730-1732, 1879-1884, 1886-1896, 1898-1902, 1909, 1925-1933 and 1935. The longest of these lasted 11 years. Since 1945 there has not been a single war within the EU.

And don't even get me started on the powder keg that is Ireland...

That is a consequence of the British Empire. Descendants of British immigrants in Ulster want to remain a part of the UK whilst native Irish folk want to be part of a United Ireland. Even there, dialogue and democracy are the way forward (I think) rather than terrorism and violence, though I know it is an emotive issue.

ren wrote: The kind that turns a dump into a major power? This extreme form of nationalism has proven very effective after the devastation of WW1, the repayment, and then the 30's crisis. Something similar happened to the US after WW2.

So your admiration for the Nazi regime is based purely on their ability to become a super-power, but lets ignore the death, mayhem and destruction which followed? Awesome ship dude, just don't name it the Titanic...

Never mind the worst of it, I find it hard to admire the Nazi's at all. At best I'd say its a faux-phoenix you're attempting to paint... You have to move your goal posts a whole lot to make this one stick...