imperio: hypnosis, self hypnosis, or meditative trance

After reading " a practical guide to self hypnosis" it seems to me that meditative trances can be seen as a form of self hypnosis, of course I still don't believe that just because someone can place themselves in such a state that it means they can be placed in one by someone else...in college psychology we did experiments with hypnosis and they never worked for me (as far as others trying to hypnotize me)...we then learned about the differences between introverts and extroverts. Sometime later watching a mentalist on tv he also mentioned that introverts (because of a strong inward focus) are less prone to hypnosis and suggestion, whereas extroverts are more prone(due to a strong outward focus). The books suggests that introverts are more prone to "reverse psychology" due to their resistance to standards practices...I can agree with this, but not entirely only because from experience I respond to neither standard practice nor reverse psychology (I always question things and think them out)...

As far as meditative trance(my preferred term to self hypnosis) it's something I can easily achieve and frequently use for various reasons(making myself wake up at a certain time, blocking pain, etc)

The resistant nature to suggestion and external hypnosis reminds of a part in "harry potter and the prisoner of Azkaban" when the fake mad eye moody was teaching them to resist the imperio curse...harry was the only one that could shake it off because he had an internal voice that kept asking "why", "why should I do what he wants"...that's the same thing I go through when someone tries to use hypnosis or suggestion on me...

Just my thoughts though, anyone else?

of course I still don't believe that just because someone can place themselves in such a state that it means they can be placed in one by someone else

Does Powers say this?

To touch on the self-hypnosis versus hypnosis by others...

I agree with Powers that "all hypnosis is self hypnosis"....

So, by that stance, if a person can't put themselves under with a witness or audience, then that just says there is no reason for them to do so....

You are in control, not the hypnotist....

On the introvert versus extrovert, understanding what I do, and I am sure there is lots I don't know, :lol:, I would think introverts would find it easier to hypnotize themselves...

Extroverts would do it to please others, introverts are not going to do it for that reason ....

You mentioned your "meditation trance"...

...Exactly.... .. lol...

...harry was the only one that could shake it off because he had an internal voice that kept asking "why", "why should I do what he wants"...that's the same thing I go through when someone tries to use hypnosis or suggestion on me...

I used to think hypnosis was complete bunk, and I doubt anyone would have been able to hypnotise me because I would have resisted. Having achieved self hypnosis twice now though I think that, as long as I trusted the other person, I would be able to allow someone to hypnotise me. If you are purposely going through hypnotism because you want to, the question of 'why' kind of becomes irrelevant, because you already know why otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. If you are doing it just to amuse someone else then it's probably not a surprise that nothing happens because there isn't a personal internal reason, no reason to open up to another.

Powers mentions that 90% of people are susceptible to hypnosis, but he personally felt it was closer to 99%...I'm leaning towards the 90% myself only because of what I've experienced and learned...I do agree that it requires a degree of trust, however I trust very few people and the few I trust do not have that level of trust...

I'm wondering if the various jungian personality types plays a part only because intj's make up 1% of the population and the very nature of an intj matches the hypnosis resistant behavior...

I've never considered hypnosis to be bunk...always been interested in it...

I tried that circle trick with the ring on a chain....the darn thing never move...just like when I tried a ouija board...the lack of activity causes me to lose interest until I simply walk away disappointed...

As to opening up to anyone....I'm always wide open with everyone...secrets are trouble, so before trouble begins I expose it...people can use secrets as a weapon/tool against you if you have no secrets they have no weapon/tool...

I think self hypnosis works because I'm doing it to myself, but hynosis itself I've never found to work and I think it's because I tend to raise defences, I don't like the idea of someone outside controlling me. Or allowing someone outside that level of control.
And that circle trick with the ring on a chain is more subconscious movement caused by you yourself.

elizabeth wrote: I think self hypnosis works because I'm doing it to myself, but hynosis itself I've never found to work and I think it's because I tend to raise defences, I don't like the idea of someone outside controlling me. Or allowing someone outside that level of control.
And that circle trick with the ring on a chain is more subconscious movement caused by you yourself.

I agree with the self hypnosis, but I prefer to call it a meditative trance as it is an internally focused form of hypnosis done to the self by the self...I don't think regular hypnosis ( hypnosis done to you by someone else) is truly self hypnosis, yes you have to be willing and have to trust the individual, but you also have to follow their suggestions on achieving a hypnotic state, not your own(thus removing the self part)...

The chain test thingy, of course it moves due to subconscious action...the test is to reveal whether or not your subconscious is open to hypnosis/suggestion....if it moves subconsciously then you're open to hypnosis/suggestion if it doesn't move then you have barriers/defenses in place blocking your subconscious from hypnosis/suggestion

RyuJin wrote: Powers mentions that 90% of people are susceptible to hypnosis, but he personally felt it was closer to 99%...I'm leaning towards the 90% myself only because of what I've experienced and learned...

I dig what you are saying...

And would have agreed many years ago...

Now, having learned more, and contemplated more, I'm of a similar opinion to Powers...

I think any expert in their field would be foolish to say 100% of anything is the case... But, as I'm no expert, I would say 100% of people are able, but the chances of it happening begin to slacken as more information and factors come to light of the subject....

The biggest factor in it not working? In my layman's opinion?

The mindset of the subject...

If a person says they can't be hypnotized, they are right....

Because they won't let it happen....

Just as anyone who says "I can't do that." is right... They can't... They have already built a mental block....

I tried that circle trick with the ring on a chain....the darn thing never move...just like when I tried a ouija board...the lack of activity causes me to lose interest until I simply walk away disappointed...

This is a trick, in my opinion, and one you and I as martial artists have overridden...

Because we work hard to control and relax our bodies, we have conditioned them to respond generally as we desire... Some areas may still require some work... lol, for me, anyway...

I would think the results would be the same (as yours and mine) with anyone who possesses "body awareness"...

If that makes sense...... :lol:...

As to opening up to anyone....I'm always wide open with everyone...secrets are trouble, so before trouble begins I expose it...people can use secrets as a weapon/tool against you if you have no secrets they have no weapon/tool...

Its not just that, but the "giving of [perceived] control to another"...

So "hetro-hypnosis" is scary...

Where "self hypnosis", if one trusts themselves, is less so...

Idk... :lol:...

I'm still learning too..

Good point about the martial arts thing....no-mindedness: training to the point that your body act/reacts in a desired manner without conscious effort...

True that mindset plays a part, but there are some that say they can't be hypnotized and turn out to be easily hypnotized, which would indicate a subconscious desire for it or they're lying to themselves/others...personally I'm of the mindset that if you can conceive it, you can achieve it...sometimes it's just a bit harder than expected...

Btw I still find the term "hetero-hypnosis" to be amusing...got a good laugh when I saw it in the book

Edit: considering what he mentioned about self hypnosis sometimes taking a long time using repetitive processes any discipline involving body awareness could be seen as a form of physical self hypnosis...which could allow hypnosis to be perceived as conditioning...

RyuJin wrote: Edit: considering what he mentioned about self hypnosis sometimes taking a long time using repetitive processes any discipline involving body awareness could be seen as a form of physical self hypnosis...which could allow hypnosis to be perceived as conditioning...