Divorce

After many months of unhappiness, it seems I may be looking at one of these in the not-too-distant future.

Wondering if any of you have been through one, close to one, been through your parents' one or anything like that, and whether you have any advice at all. What worked, what didn't, what you wish you'd known? I know there's tons of advice online (good and bad), but I'd like to hear from fellow Jedi.

My wife and I are talking, a lot, and our communication is still pretty good. We're planning on getting some marriage counselling and we have two young kids so will do whatever we can to keep things amicable, even if just for their sake. I'll be honest though, we both think this is unlikely to become love again so aren't keen to delay the inevitable.

Apologies for potential bouts of being out of contact or general unreliability from me as I go through the initial stages of this. Spending some time at my parents' to give things a little space, at my wife's request. Rural internet in the UK is not fun.

I'm sorry to hear this buddy...

As ugly as it sounds, get visitation ironed out...

Gently find out about it, and possibly, jokingly, yet firmly say you'd hate to have to get the police to make sure visitation is enforced....

Make sure to be firm and insistent... And you follow through if necessary...

This is experience I'm giving you...

My ex and I were friendly over my daughter, but, when her next relationship failed, and mine turned into marriage number 3 (and 16 years last Valentine's Day), she became bitter, and started refusing my visits...

Too busy, daughter going to gma's, friends, whatever...

Now, I have a weird, distant relationship with my daughter....

I should have been more insistent....

But, my daughter and I have grown closer since she is army reserve, and has to come to town to do the weekend warrior deal....

Even if its friendly, its hard, and it sucks...

Good luck to you both....

Please accept my sincere sympathy regarding this sad and painful event. Divorce is one of the most difficult experiences to endure, no matter who is initiating it. It is a death of sorts (death of a relationship, the end of a planned future) and feelings of grief, anger, guilt, failure and so many more emotions are part of the landscape you will now have to navigate. All feeling are appropriate and can be accepted as part of the divorce landscape. Observe them come and go. Allow the feelings to come and allow them to go. Eventually they will fade into a distant memory. Give yourself permission to have them without the inner dialogue of if they are right and proper.

Divorce is a major stress inducer so attend to its affects upon your body. Take good care of yourself (eat, sleep, play) but allow yourself the occasional indulgences if/when they help. Attend also to excesses (self-medication of a variety of sorts). No amount will be sufficient to erase the feelings. Be aware that stress can impact your life - inability to focus, impatience, boredom, ennui, anxiety, lethargy, etc. Attend also to the occurrence of obsessions in thought and action. Resist denial and blame. The 'one-day-at-a-time' advice from addiction survivors is good advice for suffering a divorce and surviving it. Some days will be better than others so do not regard a worse day as a set-back. Throughout it all seek insight.

Reassure your children that it is not their fault and fixing it or solving the problems is not their responsibility. Providing them with consistency in any form is good. Marriage counseling is always a good idea, even if divorce is inevitable. Go together and go separately. Practically speaking, get your own lawyer - no matter what - and make sure she/he understands your priorities, values, needs, and expectations.

tzb wrote: After many months of unhappiness, it seems I may be looking at one of these in the not-too-distant future.

Wondering if any of you have been through one, close to one, been through your parents' one or anything like that, and whether you have any advice at all. What worked, what didn't, what you wish you'd known? I know there's tons of advice online (good and bad), but I'd like to hear from fellow Jedi.

My wife and I are talking, a lot, and our communication is still pretty good. We're planning on getting some marriage counselling and we have two young kids so will do whatever we can to keep things amicable, even if just for their sake. I'll be honest though, we both think this is unlikely to become love again so aren't keen to delay the inevitable.

Apologies for potential bouts of being out of contact or general unreliability from me as I go through the initial stages of this. Spending some time at my parents' to give things a little space, at my wife's request. Rural internet in the UK is not fun.

Never experienced anything of the sort... Stupid question: what's the source of your unhappiness?

Wide-ranging. A profound disagreement in parenting styles for which we've been unable to reach a workable compromise, a lack of closeness and affection, an increasing lack of respect for one another, and fairly fundamentally we've just fallen out of love to an extent we can't imagine ever being in love again, which isn't something either of us want to face for the rest of our lives.

We've "grown apart", I guess. And we can't see ourselves growing back together, at least not romantically.

If the two of you are not happy together, the WORST thing you can do is stay together for the kid/s. My parents hated themselves and each other, and should have never been in the same room together. They insisted it would be better for their three kids if they stayed together, they instead made our family life a living hell, and left their kids emotionally scarred. Chin up, you'll make it through...

I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this. I can only tell you my experience from the "kids with divorcing parents" view, but I hope it will help. I can think of two major mistakes my parents made, which made things harder for us than it should have been. The first one was that they didn't separate their relationship with each other from their individual relationships with us kids. Divorce is about a breakdown in the married couple's relationship and should always be kept separate from a parent's relationship to the child. This includes, beyond explaining to the kids why it's happening and how it's not their fault, any discussions regarding your relationship with your wife and the divorce really should not be for their ears. Adults don't understand how much it hurts a child to hear them say negative things about the other parent. It puts the child in the position of feeling like they have to choose sides, and no child should ever be made to feel that way.

The other mistake they made was that they failed to recognize how we still needed both parents in our lives. My mother thought it was enough to replace our father with another man. She expected our stepfather to become "dad" and it was not something any of us wanted (meaning me, my siblings and even my stepdad). While I grew to love my stepdad and had my own special relationship over time (he was a mechanic and I was a tom boy, so yeah...), he was still not a replacement "dad" for me. I still needed my dad. My dad on the other hand took a passive view and thought it would be easier on us if he just went along with what my mom wanted and made things easier on us by disappearing from our lives. At first we had regular visitations with him, but then my mom moved us out of state (without his knowledge or consent) so he just let us go without much of a fight. He felt that it would be more hurtful if he tried staying in our lives. Neither of our parents really took into consideration what we needed. They made their decisions based on what was easier and best for them, really.

I knew someone who did family mediations a while back when I lived in Virginia. It was her job to help divorcing parents work out custody and visitation issues before it went to court. She said the most successful divorces ended where the two adults involved could put aside their personal differences to make decisions in the best interest of their children. She said the bottom line is that kids need both parents as regular participants in their lives. They need to know both parents care about them and that they can always depend on both parents to be there for them. They need to see that both parents are willing to work together for them even if they don't get along with each other. If differences in opinion arise, there are always mediators to help. Never involve other family members in decision making for the kids because they are too biased. It should always be a third party with no emotional investment in the situation. She said other family members are usually the biggest instigators of problems during and after a divorce. She has seen situations where the divorcing couple was working great together until family got involved.

I hope I'm not talking too much here, but I just wanted to throw something else out there for you to consider. Another friend of mine and her husband went through the same thing where they grew apart. They "separated", but lived together as roommates until the kids were grown. They thought it was the best way they could both continue to be a regular part of their kids lives. They had separate rooms and the kids were fully aware of what was going on, and they seemed pretty okay with it. They still had mom and dad under the same roof and there was a lot less stress and mom and dad yelling, so it worked out well for them. They both dated, but didn't bring their dates home. It would really depend on your situation with your wife, but maybe an arrangement like this might be something you'd want to consider. It does have it's drawbacks. For instance, you would have to hold off on the divorce because you can't divorce while living together.

Anyway I hope this helps. Divorce sucks and sometimes there will be hard feelings and an urge to get back at the other person, but the kids are always the ones to be the ones who are most hurt in those situations. I hope you both can find a way to get through this amicably and with your friendship intact.

Im so sorry my friend. Regardless of why or how, its a tough time. I hope that youre able to find the best outcome.

My mother has been married four times.

She and my father were incompatible from the start and should never have married. Both of them were stifled by the relationship, and we were all better off for the split. Theyve maintained a good friendship for more than 20 years now.

My first step father was an abusive and violent alcoholic. She was with him for 7 misery filled years before they divorced. The split was the best thing she could have done (well, maybe not the best, but the alternative is sadly illegal)

My second step father was quite a stern man early on, but he made my mother happy. It was their very different ways of dealing with grief after the death of my sister that drove them apart. They needed space from each other and a break away from what had been. This was the only divorce that affected me because he had been a very stable and loving influence.

I'm pleased to say they remarried a few years later and are contentedly growing into a pair of fat grumpy nosy old buggers.

Marriage is no guarantee of a lasting relationship. Like anything, it may be the right thing at that time, but might not always be that way. People change. People grow. My mother made sure that I understood her marriages and divorces were about her own relationships and not about me. And while the upheaval of moving and change was unsettling for a while, I have never felt negatively affected by it. In a way, Ive always felt like it was none of my business.

It did however make me take the concept of marriage with a little more hesitation and perhaps a touch of cynicism... until recently

tzb wrote: Wide-ranging. A profound disagreement in parenting styles for which we've been unable to reach a workable compromise

Is separation a better compromise? Have you considered that she's going to parent the way she decides no matter what, and so are you? And as such, there is no point whatsoever in her trying to "make you" parent differently, and no point in you in even hoping that she can/must parent in your preferred style?
Have you considered that perhaps it is meant to be that way? (and better too?)

a lack of closeness and affection

How/why? Is it all down to differing opinions?

we can't imagine ever being in love again, which isn't something either of us want to face for the rest of our lives

You're assuming that the grass is greener elsewhere. The mere amount of divorcees/multiple divorcees/dudes living in a parent's basement we see at totjo should provide sufficient evidence that the contrary is true.

At some point you have to look at what things are like now and what they'll be like if you divorce:
-Will you have more time for yourself?
-Will your kids be educated the way you like?
-Will you have more money? A nicer house?
-Will your life be more fulfilling?

Have you considered that your belief that it is inevitable is what makes it inevitable? you say you have changed, "grown apart".In what way have you (both) changed since you first fell in love, and why is it such a big deal?


You're also asking the wrong people. The guys you want to question are those who have been happily married for the past 40 years. You get an additional +2 experience and +1 wisdom if they went through poverty, bankruptcy or death of a child.