Homophobia and hatred

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyNis-z0Rg0
Stepped onto this new documentary with Stephen Fry this morning. It is quite interesting (no pun intended); He goes around the world into the countries where gay people are persecuted the most, and talks to victims as well as the people making discriminating laws. And to Neil Patrick Harris.

It's shocking at times. But it really makes me want to point out how happy I am to be part of a community that does not adhere to discriminating dogmas.

Great find. Thanks for sharing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPxV_V0TzBA

Part two. So incredible.

Good quote: "Their lies create hysteria amongst the uneducated, from which violence can grow..."

Sadly, even in the countries where it is not illegal to be LGBT, there is still a huge social stigma attached to it, and identifying oneself as LGBT is seen as a sign of weakness or oddity for the most part.

Fortunately, progression is being made, albeit slowly

I don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but here's my take:

I've lived in Malaysia and spent extended periods of time in neighboring Singapore. Singapore, which unlike Malaysia, is a secular state. Most people are religious, but there is no majority religion, the largest group being Buddhists, at roughly 33%, followed by Christians at roughly 18%, non-religious/agnostic/atheists at roughly 17%, Islam at roughly 14%, and the rest of the population being of other faiths. The point I'm making here is that-unlike in Malaysia, or my native USA, or many other countries, no religion (or lack thereof) has a claim to the majority.

Homosexuality is tolerated in Singapore. It is safe to be openly gay. The "father of Singapore," Lee Kuan Yew, has "liberal" and "Western" views on homosexuality. At the same time, homosexuality is technically illegal, although the law is not enforced and the government has openly stated that it will not be enforced. The reason the law is kept on the books is to represent the sentiment held by the vast majority of Singaporeans, who do not feel positively about homosexuality.

I think it is very arrogant to assume that Singapore is in error in this regard, and that they should be "educated." It is a difference of culture, and as much as liberals preach about respecting other cultures, they should be open to tolerating this element as well. Singapore is not Saudi Arabia, where homosexuals (and essentially, all non-Muslims), risk death daily. They simply find homosexuality incompatible with their culture.

I think that Western liberals need to take a step back and look at what they are saying and expecting. Not everybody is going to be on-board with everything you like, and yes, people will disagree with you and do things you do not like. Some cultures do not like homosexuality. This is just how they are. Calling it a "phobia" doesn't change anything. As long as homosexuals are not persecuted, I don't see what there is to be concerned about. For the record, myself and most of the other "homophobes" I know have no desire or intention of marginalizing, lynching, persecuting, or otherwise harming anybody.

Star Forge wrote: As long as homosexuals are not persecuted, I don't see what there is to be concerned about. For the record, myself and most of the other "homophobes" I know have no desire or intention of marginalizing, lynching, persecuting, or otherwise harming anybody.

I think this is reasonable to a degree. As long as people aren't being persecuted or discriminated for a preference they were born with, the fact that people don't really like it is of little concern. Of course it would be ideal for people to be more accepting and tolerating of homosexuality, but hell, mixed-raced couples still encounter crap from a large portion of society, even if it isn't openly spoken of.

The problem is that in the majority of the world, being LGBT is still illegal in many places, and frowned upon in many of the places where it is not criminalized.

Kohadre wrote:

Star Forge wrote: As long as homosexuals are not persecuted, I don't see what there is to be concerned about. For the record, myself and most of the other "homophobes" I know have no desire or intention of marginalizing, lynching, persecuting, or otherwise harming anybody.

I think this is reasonable to a degree. As long as people aren't being persecuted or discriminated for a preference they were born with, the fact that people don't really like it is of little concern. Of course it would be ideal for people to be more accepting and tolerating of homosexuality, but hell, mixed-raced couples still encounter crap from a large portion of society, even if it isn't openly spoken of.

The problem is that in the majority of the world, being LGBT is still illegal in many places, and frowned upon in many of the places where it is not criminalized.

It's really only punishable in countries that are essentially theocracies, like Saudi Arabia. In those cases, we shouldn't be specifically worried about the gay people, but for EVERYBODY, because every last person there is having to live under a theocracy.

Like I said, it's kept on the books in Singapore (and Malaysia) just out of cultural sensitivity. It's not punishable. I lived in Malaysia for years, and visit there often, and I would feel safe there if I was gay, and this is in a country that's constitutionally Islamic.

As I said, I'm against violence toward anybody, but we have to remember that there are other cultures besides that of the liberal West, and they have very different values.

Star Forge wrote: For the record, myself and most of the other "homophobes" I know have no desire or intention of marginalizing, lynching, persecuting, or otherwise harming anybody.

I am glad to see that though your opinion may differ from your neighbors, you do not belittle their opinion. However, a question I would like to ask of you; do you have any homosexual neighbors, friends, loved ones, etc?

OrvisOrenn wrote:

Star Forge wrote: For the record, myself and most of the other "homophobes" I know have no desire or intention of marginalizing, lynching, persecuting, or otherwise harming anybody.

I am glad to see that though your opinion may differ from your neighbors, you do not belittle their opinion. However, a question I would like to ask of you; do you have any homosexual neighbors, friends, loved ones, etc?

Of course.

And is it safe to assume that you are completely comfortable around them? (Assuming they don't make you feel awkward like giving you "Bedroom eyes"?) If so, then I see no problem here for either of you to discuss, I myself am a bisexual male, we get along fine on first contact and we seem to have a mutual understanding regardless of sex, age, race, or creed.